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What's your opinion on Vocational High Schools?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Dennis in MA, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA Get off my lawn

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    We have 7 in our region. Seven.

    Back 30 years ago when I was in HS, this was where the "zoofs" went to study auto repair or the zoof girls to learn beauty. Academics was an afterthought. It wasn't half of the curriculum.

    Today, all 7 Vok's in my area compete for students. They have waiting lists every year. They have programs in computer science, finish carpentry, landscape & design, natural science & conservation, and such. Very modern. Very decent academics. Very expensive programs to run. (All the same costs for staffing a normal HS, plus all the equipment and supplies for the various vocational programs.)

    Should the "state" (actually the cities, towns and counties here) be involved in non-essential education???

    I think most who have studied history would agree that basic public education is vital to the success of a society. But should we be on the hook for vocational training as well? Or is that something the individual should figure out themselves. 50 years ago, my uncle joined the Army to learn diesel mechanics. Should someone get a free education in that during HS now?

    I'm curious what the thoughts are here. I'm in the middle right now. I've never given it much thought but am friends with a teacher (who does art, silk-screening, and banner production at one of the Vok's) and this thought has popped into my head.
     
  2. tadbart

    tadbart duuuuude.

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    our Vo-Tech is separate from the high school here.

    i think there's lots worse things we could be spending tax money on. at least these kids come out with a decent blue-collar gig. after high school, i wasted 10-ish years, then went to Vo-Tech for 2 certificates before i went to college to continue in the same field.

    most of the folks i was in class with there were on some kind of government grant, anyhow.
     

  3. btr

    btr

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    Honestly, that sound more useful than normal public high schools

    There is a shortage of skilled blue collar labor.
     
  4. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

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    When I was in high school. 1955, there was a vocational high school in the city. I understand it was state of the art. Good equipment and instructors.


    I attended the best engineering high school in the country but there was no such thing as me going to college.
    Back then no one I knew or heard of went to college, so high school was it.

    So I came out of high school with a "education" but no job skills.

    My friend, who was some what of a trouble maker and was sent to vocational high school. He came out of high school with job skills.

    I think (good) vocational high schools are the way to go for maybe 30-40%, or more of the kids.



    Painting with a broad brush, I think most public schools and colleges have become brain washing factories to produce liberals.:upeyes:
     
  5. All Pro Sports Hero

    All Pro Sports Hero

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    "Zoofs" :rofl:

    We used to call them "Vokies".

    Back when I was in junior high, the town voke was in the same building, separated by NOTHING. We shared a cafeteria those gorillas. Those guys were rough. Imagine 7th graders sharing school hallways with 18 yo vokies, all of whom reeked of cigarette smoke. Half of them had stayed back. I'd be surprised if some weren't in their 20's. Scary. I couldn't wait to get the Hell out of that prison.

    I remember playing street hockey in gym class on one side of the floor, while the vokies were playing on the other side, separated only by a curtain. When our ball would scoot under, they'd dare one of us to come get it. :faint: No thanks, I'll take the zero.

    Ahh, that was theraputic.
     
  6. series1811

    series1811 Enforcerator. CLM

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    I took auto mechanics at night at high school vo-tech, in addition to daytime college prep courses. It's nice knowing how to actually do something and it's been a great hobby, too.

    (I wish I had taken welding, too. I had to self teach that and I'm not that good at it). :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  7. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA Get off my lawn

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    So, so far the vote is that Vocational HS's are the bright light of success in the otherwise failure of education and government?
     
  8. janice6

    janice6 Silver Member

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    Learning a trade, any trade, is preferential to sucking off the government.

    Worked for my low achiever neighbor. He is a low achiever, not all VoTech students are.
     
  9. SC Tiger

    SC Tiger Jive Tiger

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    I'm gonna agree with this. There are much worse uses for tax dollars than education.

    I don't know about some of the specific programs different schools offer but I think giving non-college-bound kids a head start in a career in carpentry, auto mechanics, or other programs is a good thing and helps them and our country as a whole. When I was in school they had welding, auto mechanics, carpentry, masonry, electrician, and cosmetology, and there may have been other programs as well. The students spend half the day at their normal high school and half at the vocational school.

    Were I running this I would look into adding some technology programs as well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  10. Andy W

    Andy W

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    Colllege is great but it's not for everyone. In many cases, vocational training will benefit a young person more than a college degree.
     
  11. Andy W

    Andy W

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    Were there any men that took cosmetology?
     
  12. SC Tiger

    SC Tiger Jive Tiger

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    I can't say for sure that there weren't.

    (I didn't go to the vocational school).
     
  13. SC Tiger

    SC Tiger Jive Tiger

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    This x1000.

    Besides, my mechanic probably makes much more money in a year than I do.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  14. jtmac

    jtmac Señor Member

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    If we're going to have public education, this is how it should be. Vocational training should be the standard, not just the plan for the ones that can't/won't hack academia.

    For most students, the liberal arts education in high schools can be compressed into a quarter of the time they use to teach it. Do that, and use the rest of the time to teach something useful.

    A friend of mine has a sister that goes to Rancho High School in North Last Vegas. Look at their magnet programs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_High_School
    Is that going overboard with public funds? I think so, but bravo for pulling it off.

    The end of high school is long past the time a person should be ready to be a member of the work force. EVERY kid needs to leave high school able to work somehow.
     
  15. Rabbi

    Rabbi The Bombdiggity Lifetime Member

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    I agree with this.

    I dont know if a "vocational high school" is the answer but some level of exposure to various trades in high school might be a great idea.

    The "everyone has to go to college" mantra has backfired in a way and been a boon in another. It has created a vacuum in skilled trades at the same time it has given us much more advanced skilled trades.

    In this country right now, liberal arts college educated guy cant get a job and if he does it pays 35K a year. Skilled labor guy, be that plumber, machinist, skilled oifield hand... that guy can get a 60K plus job all over the place.

    The thing about a college education is you dont have to have one and if you need one you can get one at any time. Skilled labor guy who starts working at 20 and at 30 sees opportunity and needs a degree can do just that and know what degree he needs.

    Guy who graduates college at 22 with liberal arts type degree will spend the rest of his life a slave to that degree (most educated peope do, it is how they define themeselve. I.E. "I am a (insert degree) and then chase that ) and yet probably not work in that field. Such a person will end up an insurance adjuster (nothing wrong with that) or managing a retail hot tub store...(kind of jobs that require a degree, any degree)when they would have done much better, even after graduation, to learn how to weld or fix airplanes.
     
  16. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA Get off my lawn

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    But shouldn't they pay their fare at ITT Tech instead of you and I paying for it? It isn't that there AREN'T choices out there.

    I'm finding this fascinating. (And I'm probably in agreement with you - but it's so odd to be voting FOR government and education. LOL)
     
  17. sr556m9

    sr556m9

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    There is a massive shortage of skilled, young workers in our country. The current high school systems that do not have vocational education are a complete joke. How many college graduates can't find work right now? How many jobs are open at the present time for welders, robot programmers, and CNC programmers? It's not even funny. Nowadays, you can either go to school or get training. Those who are going to school are having a hard time finding work, while those who are getting training in the trades are having no problem finding GOOD jobs. The shortage of skilled workers is only going to get worse as the baby boomers retire.

    To say that high school students should not have access to this kind of training is ignorant. In fact, I believe the teachers and principals should be required to get their hands dirty and see the value of the trades. They are not helping students by trying to push them into white collar jobs, or by encouraging them to go to college for fine arts, theater, philosophy, humanities, or english. The problem is that many of the teachers and principals have never had a real job. Their whole life has been spent in education. They went to high school, went to college, and started teaching in a school. Also, they have been brainwashed into thinking only the "dumb" kids go into fields such as welding, plumbing, construction, etc. This is perhaps one of the main reasons our country is in the shape it is in.

    Edited to add: I am a community college robotics and welding instructor. I see the repercussions of academics everyday. In fact, I have several students in my welding courses who have 4 year degrees from Big 10 schools and they cannot find jobs in their field, so they are learning to weld because "that is where the jobs are."
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  18. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA Get off my lawn

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    Wow. This is interesting.


    Is that the government's job? Or is that a job of private industry/the individual? Aren't you creating a nanny-state where the government provides the training? Can't private industry do this for cheaper? (Less benefits for private industry vs. teachers in my AO.)

    I'm not asking if the training is worthy or not. It clearly is. (Our one regional Aggie school doesn't even teach farming anymore - we don't farm around here. Why offer a "major" that is useless?)

    I'm asking - is it government's job to do so?

    Or should they provide the 3 R's? Possibly at a reduced schedule. I know in the 60's, Brockton, MA had too many students and not a big enough HS. They had the JR and SR's go from 7:30-11:30 and the Frosh/Soph's at 11:30 to 3:30 or something. Half time for each because of size constraints. Today, they have the largest HS east of the Mississippi.
     
  19. Rabbi

    Rabbi The Bombdiggity Lifetime Member

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    That sounds like a really kick *** job.
     
  20. 220-9er

    220-9er

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    Many of the kids that can't pay their college loans back have worthless college degrees in abstract subjects. They would have done much better getting a vocational degree and could have actually done something productive for society and made a good living. Instead they studied things like liberal arts and wonder why nobody will hand them a good paying job.