What's the shortest buffer tube for an adjustable stock/brace?

Discussion in 'Black Rifle Forum' started by yocan, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    The OAL is measured from the end of the buffer tube to the end of the barrel -

    If you have a blade or brace - it does not add any length -

    The muzzle brake or flash can is also not counted in OAL unless it is pinned and welded.

    Sort of strange - I was thinking about building one that was 26.25 inches so it would not be a pistol so I could put a vertical grip on it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  2. ottomatic

    ottomatic

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    To not be a pistol is more an issue of barrel length, rather than overall length, Under 16 inches has to be either an SBR or a pistol
     

  3. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    Not true - OAL of over 26 inches say with a 12 inch barrel - and without a stock is classified as a firearm.

    Not a pistol because it is over 26 inches - at least for determining if you can install a vertical grip.

    Not a rifle because it doesn’t have a stock, can’t be a SBR if it is not a rifle.

    Course ATF can change their mind anytime they want to - but as of now that is the rule.

    Try looking at this -

    https://www.recoilweb.com/measuring...a-pistol-atf-has-altered-the-deal-151346.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
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  4. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    I am not talking about state laws - But federal - are you talking about state laws?


    If you take an AR pistol with a 10.5 inch barrel and OAL of 25 inches and remove the brace and install a stock you just created a SBR.

    Removing the stock and putting the brace back on makes it a pistol again.

    If the firearm starts out as a rifle then it can’t legally be converted to a pistol - so in this case you would be correct -

    Any AR I build will start out as a pistol you can legally convert a pistol to a rifle - and then convert it back to a pistol.

    This stuff does get confusing-
     
  5. ottomatic

    ottomatic

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    I believe that NEARLY everything you said was correct, except for the bolded part. To the best of my knowledge, once you have created an SBR, you cannot return it to "pistol" status, merely by switching the stock for a brace.
     
  6. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    What would it be then?

    It can't be a rifle if it doesn't have a stock.

    If you think it would still be classified as a rifle - then it would be legal to put a vertical grip on it - since it was a short barreled rifle - but you removed the stock and installed a brace.

    I really really doubt you could legally do this - ATF would charge you with having a vertical grip on a pistol.

    I do know for sure that you can legally convert a pistol into a rifle -- many people get the pistol first - then file for the stamp to make it a SBR.

    You can also turn a SBR back into a regular rifle - no restriction preventing you from putting a 16" barreled upper back on your SBR lower.

    Since it is legal to turn a firearm that started out a pistol and is now a rifle - back into a pistol - it should be legal.

    Course you never know about the AFT - they make stuff up as they go.
     
  7. Jack Black

    Jack Black

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    I can’t imagine ATF charging someone for having a vertical grip on a pistol when the lower is a registered SBR.

    Anyway, I’ve tried searching before whether an SBR can be converted to a pistol and couldn’t find a definitive answer. Apparently the ATF hasn’t written a letter on the issue.
     
  8. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    Cool - I don't really know for sure how the ATF looks at this - it is a good question --

    But

    I can't imagine ATF NOT charging someone for having a vertical grip on a pistol - just because the firearm use to be a SBR.

    Short-barreled rifle (SBR) is shoulder-fired, rifled firearm, made from a rifle, with a barrel length of less than 16 in (41 cm) or overall length of less than 26 in (66 cm), or a handgun fitted with a buttstock and a barrel of less than 16 inches length.

    Since a brace is not a buttstock (or is it?) a firearm with a brace - not a buttstock can't be a SBR.


    Maybe I should get a job running the ATF -

    First day on the job I could fire everyone and say we are just going by the Constitution from here on out -

    Shall not be infringed is good enough for me!
     
  9. Hef

    Hef

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    26 U.S.C. § 5845.Definitions

    For the purpose of this chapter—

    (A) Firearm
    The term "firearm” means (1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e); (6) a machinegun; (7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and (8) a destructive device. The term “firearm” shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector’s item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.

    (B) Machinegun
    The term "machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

    (C) Rifle
    The term "rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.

    (D) Shotgun
    The term "shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell.

    (E) Any Other Weapon
    The term "any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

    (F) Destructive Device
    The term "destructive device” means (1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellent charge of more than four ounces, (D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (E) mine, or (F) similar device; (2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and (3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term “destructive device” shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 7684(2), 7685, or 7686 of title 10, United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
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  10. bubbatime

    bubbatime

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    The Maxim brace/buffer is short, and very nice. And expensive. Id honestly look at a 7 or 8 inch 300 blk barrel.
     
  11. yocan

    yocan

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  12. pjanthony

    pjanthony

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  13. pjanthony

    pjanthony

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    60AFE93B-1753-4AB6-B0FE-E320BBAB37D4.jpeg BB776920-84F0-4CD3-9A8B-0B8B32828DBD.jpeg 92573530-EFB4-43B6-B2FC-40ABD37E940E.jpeg 4FE81ECF-94E2-4497-A4D2-945BA0F31D6D.jpeg 2EC797B0-5BB2-4C85-9747-623CC59CAF4E.jpeg 92573530-EFB4-43B6-B2FC-40ABD37E940E.jpeg 4FE81ECF-94E2-4497-A4D2-945BA0F31D6D.jpeg 2EC797B0-5BB2-4C85-9747-623CC59CAF4E.jpeg

    Fit in a Vertx EDC commuter