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What's the F'ing point of the C.A.B.?

18248 Views 88 Replies 41 Participants Last post by  Bren
I get back from my COP/FOB hopping back to my "base" FOB where I stage from and see our news letter. The whole S2/BISE shop are getting awarded CABs because a rocket landed "close" to their building, and there was supposedly a few shrapnel pockmarks in the adobe.

WTF? When did we adopt a definition of "combat" that lets the 9-5 dayhos who never even see OVER the wire get awards for being "in combat"? I head in there for an INTELSUM briefing and they're all chattering away about the 70mm that hit a football field away like they weathered an artillery barrage in a hasty position! I realize that the FOBBITs that get killed by mortars are just as dead as the SF and SEAL dudes that jump on a grenade to save their buddies, but seriously. I thought the CAB was to distinguish non 11/18s that have been IN COMBAT, not just to be another version of the deployment patch.
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ok whats a dfc or dfac. i don not have a cib newver even thought about getting one. did my 18 months in vietnam flew when i had top got shot at and missed and then got shot at and hit. got cought in a 122 blaST going to the bathroom one night. you know 40 years later dont even remember what medals i got or didnt get. i guess i could look in the box they are in . i was in a place called chu lai with the americal division. im happy you are all ok. remember teh ravages of war tend to sneak up on you later. agent orange the gift thata keeps on giving. you all survived thaats the iomportant thing
 

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ok whats a dfc or dfac.
It's the "new Army" word for a mess hall - the Wii generation doesn't know what a mess hall is. Maybe the fundamental difference is that a DFac is run by a government-contractor civilian company and it's dirty and the food's worse than any mess hall in the old days.
 

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ROFL that wasn't me, I only stoped though Bagram for a night. I wish I had a sweet machete!!!!!!
Never figured out what he was going to cut with the machete...or where he even got it. The DFac was full of people going on R&R and all heads turned when that guy walked in.
 

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DFac = Dining Facility.
 
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Was that supposed to be a jab or a compliment? Seriously it could go either way.

If you mean a first line combatant who isnt in the infantry branch then I'd say yes I'm exactly that soldier and that's what this batch was designed for.
Yes it was a jab. I just forgot my :whistling:

<-------former grunt. EIB and CIB. I was damn proud of my EIB and wouldn't take it off for anything. The only time I wore my CIB was in my class A's going home from the Army for good.

Now as a civilian, neither mean anything.
 

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Yes it was a jab. I just forgot my :whistling:

<-------former grunt. EIB and CIB. I was damn proud of my EIB and wouldn't take it off for anything. The only time I wore my CIB was in my class A's going home from the Army for good.

Now as a civilian, neither mean anything.
Personally I go the way of the Marine Corps with regards to chest candy. We have too damn much of it in the Army. Stop giving out awards for people doing their damn jobs. Get rid of the Combat patch, nobody cares if you were in _____ unit during _____ operation what are you doing on your job now.

We're just one step above the Air Force in that regard. Where people get wings and skill badge looking patches to wear on their uniform that signify nothing other than their MOS.

The only thing I get personally pissed off about with regards to myself is the whole hatred of pilots looking like pilots from some E9/O6-7 somewhere that got us this awful uniform that is the A2CU. We're told we cant look like pilots so we make a uniform that looks like everybody elses. We're told we cant look different from the ACU so we compromise its utility for the sake of looking like everybody else. We finally get the damn thing with all its awful velcro and poorly placed pocket goodness and suddenly it doesnt look enough like ACUs so we cant wear it anywhere off the flight line. Way to waste millions of dollars for the sake of making pilots not look like pilots.
 

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The only thing I get personally pissed off about with regards to myself is the whole hatred of pilots looking like pilots from some E9/O6-7 somewhere that got us this awful uniform that is the A2CU. We're told we cant look like pilots so we make a uniform that looks like everybody elses. We're told we cant look different from the ACU so we compromise its utility for the sake of looking like everybody else. We finally get the damn thing with all its awful velcro and poorly placed pocket goodness and suddenly it doesnt look enough like ACUs so we cant wear it anywhere off the flight line. Way to waste millions of dollars for the sake of making pilots not look like pilots.
x2 I do miss my name TAG and Unit chest patch too....
 

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x2 I do miss my name TAG and Unit chest patch too....
We've still got the unit patch. But yeah I like the two piece since its easier to take a crap without the top half of your uniform laying on the floor of the ****ter. But this had to be some ground guy's idea to make us not look like pilots when at the end of the day we are aviation and we do things different because we have too.
 

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The only thing I get personally pissed off about with regards to myself is the whole hatred of pilots looking like pilots from some E9/O6-7 somewhere that got us this awful uniform that is the A2CU. We're told we cant look like pilots so we make a uniform that looks like everybody elses. We're told we cant look different from the ACU so we compromise its utility for the sake of looking like everybody else. We finally get the damn thing with all its awful velcro and poorly placed pocket goodness and suddenly it doesnt look enough like ACUs so we cant wear it anywhere off the flight line. Way to waste millions of dollars for the sake of making pilots not look like pilots.
If it makes you feel better, the rest of us have to wear the ACU, because it's the perfect combat uniform, but if we go to combat they have to issue us new uniforms and warn us that the ACU is not to be worn in combat, because it will melt to you if you're around a fire or blast. That's how I got issued the A2CU or whatever, air crew uniforms. I loved those zippers. We got issued 4 FRACU's and to A2CU's when we went to Afghanistan. Some guys spent to whole deployment wearing nothing but combat shirts, air crew ACUs and the ECWCS wind shirt (to cover the combat shirt, because you aren't allowed to wear it on most FOB's or in any Dfac).
 

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If it makes you feel better, the rest of us have to wear the ACU, because it's the perfect combat uniform, but if we go to combat they have to issue us new uniforms and warn us that the ACU is not to be worn in combat, because it will melt to you if you're around a fire or blast. That's how I got issued the A2CU or whatever, air crew uniforms. I loved those zippers. We got issued 4 FRACU's and to A2CU's when we went to Afghanistan. Some guys spent to whole deployment wearing nothing but combat shirts, air crew ACUs and the ECWCS wind shirt (to cover the combat shirt, because you aren't allowed to wear it on most FOB's or in any Dfac).
Oh I know thats why I love this huge sick joke that is our uniform procurement process. And now that multicam is in the mix it'll be so much more fun. Especially the whole part about "you cant come in the DFAC wearing _____." Makes me think of pictures like this.

http://www.reocities.com/Pentagon/camp/6016/2.jpg

They lost the war because they didnt adhere to stateside garrison non combat zone uniform standards... And how can you be trusted to operate that gun if you cant even wear your uniform and reflective belt properly...
 

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I am a 12B and was in OIF2. My BN's job was Trailblazing - route clearance all the way from Camp Summerall/Arlington ( about 20 mikes N of Speicher) to just a bit North of Taji as well as routes to Anaconda via O'Ryan.

I'm sure the names have changed since then or no longer exist but that was our mission in OIF2. We covered over 120 (?) miles of Tampa looking for IED's. Back then we didn't get Buffaloes till the last 3 months of the tour. Then, we got 3 of the total 11 in Army inventory (as of Nov 2004). A majority of the tour was done in hillbilly armored 5 ton dumps with sandbags and wood against increasingly complex 155mm IEDs, rpgs and small arms.

We had 4 KIA and 25 wounded, several severely with face removal/limb removal.

I think CABs awarded then were appropriate. We took contact and by the nature of the mission, could not pursue beyond 300 meters to either side of the route. Our number 1 mission was to keep Tampa open for coalition forces.

Now, from what I read, it's gotten to be if you were near a mortar strike on your way to the PX on Anaconda.

Anyway - I think there were a good many 12B's and 31B's who earned them. Sometimes there would be 12Bs right alongside 11B's putting rounds down on an assualt (Operation Baton Rogue) and all we got were the CAB.

It is what it is.

Maybe there should be a Outside the Wire CAB and FOB CAB :)
 

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I'm not at all questioning your ability as a rotor wing pilot, or any other MOS holders ability to do their jobs well. What I am suggesting is a straightforward training program that is completed before deployment to theatre regardless of MOS.
Simply put, the type of training that will give real time hands on experience in dealing with the situations encountered during a CAB qualifying engagement.
Something that is more than just a refresher of basic training, but a thorough station-to-station task completion.

You have to admit, that if for some reason you have to auto-rotate or ditch you will be on the ground possibly fighting for your survival. I don't know if you are flying attack or support, but finding yourself trying to defend yourself and the lives of surviving crewmembers is a very real possibility. Infantry skills pay off exponentially.

Infantry divisions see the firsthand value of EIB training pre deployment. Been that way since the WWII European Theatre deployment of the 100th ID.
I simply think the EIB should be part of a pre-deployment requirement for all infantry MOS. And, to add, that should include all 19 series and 13 series soldiers as well, IMO. They deserve the CIB also, IMO.

I'm suggesting a similiar pre-deployment training for all other MOS soldiers can do nothing but help prepare them for when/if they need to call upon that training. I have not advocated NON AWARD simply because there has been no previous level of training or qualification. I simply wish to see more lives saved through quality preparation.

Thank you for your service to our nation, Reheater. Stay safe.
The CIB was awarded RETROACTIVELY post WW2 and recieved the same criticisms as the CAB.......see the parralell?
 

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I am a 12B and was in OIF2. My BN's job was Trailblazing - route clearance all the way from Camp Summerall/Arlington ( about 20 mikes N of Speicher) to just a bit North of Taji as well as routes to Anaconda via O'Ryan.

I'm sure the names have changed since then or no longer exist but that was our mission in OIF2. We covered over 120 (?) miles of Tampa looking for IED's. Back then we didn't get Buffaloes till the last 3 months of the tour. Then, we got 3 of the total 11 in Army inventory (as of Nov 2004). A majority of the tour was done in hillbilly armored 5 ton dumps with sandbags and wood against increasingly complex 155mm IEDs, rpgs and small arms.

We had 4 KIA and 25 wounded, several severely with face removal/limb removal.

I think CABs awarded then were appropriate. We took contact and by the nature of the mission, could not pursue beyond 300 meters to either side of the route. Our number 1 mission was to keep Tampa open for coalition forces.

Now, from what I read, it's gotten to be if you were near a mortar strike on your way to the PX on Anaconda.

Anyway - I think there were a good many 12B's and 31B's who earned them. Sometimes there would be 12Bs right alongside 11B's putting rounds down on an assualt (Operation Baton Rogue) and all we got were the CAB.

It is what it is.

Maybe there should be a Outside the Wire CAB and FOB CAB :)
 

· Low Speed, High Drag (12B)
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I am a 12B and was in OIF2. My BN's job was Trailblazing - route clearance all the way from Camp Summerall/Arlington ( about 20 mikes N of Speicher) to just a bit North of Taji as well as routes to Anaconda via O'Ryan.

I'm sure the names have changed since then or no longer exist but that was our mission in OIF2. We covered over 120 (?) miles of Tampa looking for IED's. Back then we didn't get Buffaloes till the last 3 months of the tour. Then, we got 3 of the total 11 in Army inventory (as of Nov 2004). A majority of the tour was done in hillbilly armored 5 ton dumps with sandbags and wood against increasingly complex 155mm IEDs, rpgs and small arms.

We had 4 KIA and 25 wounded, several severely with face removal/limb removal.

I think CABs awarded then were appropriate. We took contact and by the nature of the mission, could not pursue beyond 300 meters to either side of the route. Our number 1 mission was to keep Tampa open for coalition forces.

Now, from what I read, it's gotten to be if you were near a mortar strike on your way to the PX on Anaconda.

Anyway - I think there were a good many 12B's and 31B's who earned them. Sometimes there would be 12Bs right alongside 11B's putting rounds down on an assualt (Operation Baton Rogue) and all we got were the CAB.

It is what it is.

Maybe there should be a Outside the Wire CAB and FOB CAB :)
[Since the Zombie Thread has already been awoken] - Cheers from a brother 12B. I agree with a lot of your post and experienced much the same of what you describe (except I was there for OIF1, so I didn't have a lovely "hillbilly" armored HMMWV to drive/ride around in (thankfully ignorance is bliss, and that never resulted in a problem). Toward the end of our tour they did replace our PL's APC (did I mention we were mechanized...:innocent:) with a brand-spankin'-new up-armored HMMWV, but my Platoon Sgt's soft skin remained (and continued to be used just as often until we went home in '04).

Anyway, when I found out later on that my platoon received the CAB, I thought, "ok, that's cool I guess". Then I noticed that the guys/gals who never stepped foot outside of the TOC (and definitely not the wire) were given the CAB as well, I realized "What's the F'n point?" Yes, we were mostly on a tiny FOB (just south of Anaconda) and took a few indirect-fire attacks, but I didn't see any of the cooks, or HQ personnel suiting up to actually "engage" the D-Bags that were firing at us. I also must have missed them when we'd be out in the weeds for hours on ambush too (or clearing IED's, or etc.).

Your Outside the Wire CAB and Inside the Wire CAB seems like a good idea (couldn't be any worse than what they've already done to make the current CAB valueless). Oh well, I guess I'll just have to leave it in the same pile of "participation awards" the rest are in.
 
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