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What's the F'ing point of the C.A.B.?
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I thought the CAB was a total joke at first but I knew a few 31B's that more than earned theirs.
I think the true joke comes when they start handing them out for next to nothing. I remember a S2 or S3 shop on Kalsu that was claimed to get CAB's for a Katyusha hitting within 100m of their building...that is where the joke is IMO.
On the other hand I knew a few 11B's that shouldn't have gotten a CIB too, so IMO a combat badge doesn't instantly mean what it is meant to.
I think the true joke comes when they start handing them out for next to nothing. I remember a S2 or S3 shop on Kalsu that was claimed to get CAB's for a Katyusha hitting within 100m of their building...that is where the joke is IMO.
On the other hand I knew a few 11B's that shouldn't have gotten a CIB too, so IMO a combat badge doesn't instantly mean what it is meant to.
God, that brings back flashbacks to being of BAF seeing people walking around with DQ cups and BurgerKing bags. That, and getting our target briefing in the BISE before air assaulting onto an objective, and one of the TOC monkeys sticks their head in with a: "Hey guys, we're making a Green Beans run, you want anything?"![]()
:rofl:
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Exactly, a guy who spent a few weeks at Ft. Benning and gets shot at by a sniper while riding in his up-armored deserves a CIB, but the 13F in the seat beside him deserves nothing - just like the 11B who would have gotten his CIB if he had been standing on the FOB beside those intel guys who got rocketed. Yes, my MOS is 11B. I guess even the infantry gets it's share of whiners, huh?
I have never understood the CAB other than it was intended as a morale booster.
I personally have been awarded a CIB from 2003 but even then I wonder how the guys in Vietnam feel about that? Our Company took out a dozen or so BG in direct contact while I think our same Company in 1969 were taking out dozens a week. It's all in perspective and really the CAB is what it is.
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Specific eligibility requirements
(1) A soldier must be an Army infantry or special forces Officer (SSI 11 or 18) in the grade of colonel or below, or an Army enlisted soldier or warrant officer with an infantry or special forces MOS, who subsequent to 6 December 1941 has satisfactorily performed duty while assigned or attached as a member of an infantry, ranger or special forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat. Eligibility for special forces personnel (less the special forces medical sergeant) accrues from 20 December 1989. Retroactive awards for special forces personnel are not authorized.
(2) A recipient must be personally present and under hostile fire while serving in an assigned infantry or special forces primary duty, in a unit actively engaged in ground combat with the enemy. The unit in question can be of any size smaller than brigade. For example, personnel possessing an infantry MOS in a rifle squad of a cavalry platoon in a cavalry troop would be eligible for award of the CIB. Battle or campaign participation credit alone is not sufficient; the unit must have been in active ground combat with the enemy during the period.
(3) Personnel with other than an infantry or special forces MOS are not eligible, regardless of the circumstances. The infantry or special forces SSI or MOS does not necessarily have to be the soldier's primary specialty, as long as the soldier has been properly trained in infantry or special forces tactics, possesses the appropriate skill code, and is serving in that specialty when engaged in active ground combat as described above. Commanders are not authorized to make any exceptions to this policy.
(4) Awards will not be made to general officers nor to members of headquarters companies of units larger in size than brigade.
Last awarded Continuing
Distinct
recipients 3,534 in Grenada [1]
8,031 in Panama [2]
21,877 in Gulf War [3]
1,280 in Somalia [4]
16,280 in OEF (as of 21 July '09)[5]
38,303 in OIF (as of 21 July '09)[6]
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The Infantry sure does have it's share of whiners, and people who don't deserve a CIB.
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I would ask why you have to downgrade other peoples accomplishments (or lack there of) to make your accomplishments bigger. Take pride in yourself and what you have done and stop thinking about what other people have. Everybody in the military knows people that have awards that were not earned. Don't let that bring you down.
In other words suck it up and drive on.
In other words suck it up and drive on.
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Not sure what that means...that you think you're not a whiner, even though you think you deserve a special badge for getting shot at but other soldiers who do the same thing don't, just because their OSUT/AIT was a little longer than yours? Or maybe that I don't deserve a CIB because I disagree with you about it.??????????
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The question "What's the F'ing point of the C.A.B.?" was posted. I gave my opinion, like it or not. :tongueout:
IMO, all 11X/18X series should have to earn the EIB award before deployment. It's good training.
CIB should be the next award, as everyone knows what it involves.
All other MOS should be required to earn a "EAB" award before their deployment.
The CAB would be the next award, and there would be no questions as to what it entailed.
CIB should be the next award, as everyone knows what it involves.
All other MOS should be required to earn a "EAB" award before their deployment.
The CAB would be the next award, and there would be no questions as to what it entailed.
How about you go F yourself if you think I need to learn how to be in the Infantry before I take a 30 million dollar Helicopter into a fight. Do Tankers need to go through some sort of special school so they can earn a CAB? How about Arty guys?
I'm not at all questioning your ability as a rotor wing pilot, or any other MOS holders ability to do their jobs well. What I am suggesting is a straightforward training program that is completed before deployment to theatre regardless of MOS.
Simply put, the type of training that will give real time hands on experience in dealing with the situations encountered during a CAB qualifying engagement.
Something that is more than just a refresher of basic training, but a thorough station-to-station task completion.
You have to admit, that if for some reason you have to auto-rotate or ditch you will be on the ground possibly fighting for your survival. I don't know if you are flying attack or support, but finding yourself trying to defend yourself and the lives of surviving crewmembers is a very real possibility. Infantry skills pay off exponentially.
Infantry divisions see the firsthand value of EIB training pre deployment. Been that way since the WWII European Theatre deployment of the 100th ID.
I simply think the EIB should be part of a pre-deployment requirement for all infantry MOS. And, to add, that should include all 19 series and 13 series soldiers as well, IMO. They deserve the CIB also, IMO.
I'm suggesting a similiar pre-deployment training for all other MOS soldiers can do nothing but help prepare them for when/if they need to call upon that training. I have not advocated NON AWARD simply because there has been no previous level of training or qualification. I simply wish to see more lives saved through quality preparation.
Thank you for your service to our nation, Reheater. Stay safe.
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Nice!![]()
I had that, its called SERE.
By that same bit of thinking would it be so much to ask that we put anybody thats going into country through the full C course. Im not talking about the glossed over powerpoint BS they give everybody on the basics of what a blood **** is and such I mean the full experience that all us Aviator have to go through. After all the actual likely hood of having to operate in that way is infinitesimal for the dude that lives on Victory or something like that, but hey its a possibility just like me suddenly finding myself fighting on the ground... with a rifle. Infantry skills... there are two of us dude. And in all likely hood the rifle in the front seat will be inop after any kind of crash/force landing scenario. We arent gonna set up an ambush or flank a machine gun in defalade. We're going to run from a fight given the option every single time. These last stand at the Alamo Black Hawk down fantasies that people have... thats what happens when **** goes wrong and you dont have a choice.
Yes I know Infantry guys get all spun up doing their training prior to the deployment. You know what my unit is doing in July? Supporting the 173rd do exactly that. We dont sit around on our hands guy. But when your talking about time and dollars to train people to do _____ it gets to the point where you have to say isnt there something better we could be doing with this time. And Ive got far better things too do than take my million dollars of Army money invested ass out into the woods and play grunt. And there are plenty of other non combat MOS's which would get far more out of training to do their job not to play Infantry Joe.
Reason I jump on ideas like this and proceed to stomp on them so much is somebody might hear you and think that my Crew Chiefs would be better served by spending days on end in the woods learning how to land nav than learning how to do repairs on the aircraft from non developed locations (IE no hanger and such just wrenches and muscle).
Well, it's been the subject of discussion in more than one course at Carlisle Barracks, that's for sure.
I know where you are coming from. You should know I was part of the same machine twenty six years ago. Not much has changed. All I'm doing is sharing an educated opinion from experience.
If five days of appropriate training helps save the lives of your crew in a CAB qualifying incident, IMO it is more than worth it. They will be around to keep you flying after the reports are completed and the awards ceremony has been conducted.
It's not worth worrying about. There are plenty of folks in all branches and MOS's that get awards without merit, whether it's an AFAM, ARCOM, BSM, CIB, CAB or CAR. Some people earn their stuff and others just have it handed to them. It's not just this war, look at John Kerry and his purple hearts. Hell, he blew his own ass off. Some earn their awards (including CABS) and some don't. I wouldn't take the CABS from our forward observers or the one parachute rigger that somehow ended up in my platoon. They didn't everything we did.
Ultimately I don't worry about it. I know I earned mine and that's all I care about. I know there are folks that went through a lot worse and I'm sure there are those who didn't do anything and they are all welcome to their opinions. I don't know, maybe when I finally retire and don't have to worry about going to some crappy country in the ass crack of the world just to have 8 year old kids through onions at me and slip in a IED every now and then I'll spend more time contemplating all the guys that have more **** on their DD214 than me.
Ultimately I don't worry about it. I know I earned mine and that's all I care about. I know there are folks that went through a lot worse and I'm sure there are those who didn't do anything and they are all welcome to their opinions. I don't know, maybe when I finally retire and don't have to worry about going to some crappy country in the ass crack of the world just to have 8 year old kids through onions at me and slip in a IED every now and then I'll spend more time contemplating all the guys that have more **** on their DD214 than me.
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