[Rizzo]

I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't know much about this system. I did a search for it, and from what I've surmised it's an extra safety feature that Colt started doing with their 1911's in the 80's. Doing a search is one thing, but I much prefer to converse on here with knowledgeable people about it.

What I don't understand is; why do a lot of people seem to dislike it, and prefer the Series 70-style? Does the 80 affect the reliability, or the trigger pull or anything?

I have a Springfield Mil-Spec. Does that have a Series 80-style safety?

 

[skipsan]

There's some gadgetry added to the Colt Series 80 pistols for the mechanical firing pin blocks, and some object to that. There is a possibility that a 1911 dropped on its nose could discharge, and the positive fp block is one way to prevent that. Whether the mechanical fp block affects reliability, or trigger pull, or anything else is the subject of many debates. My take, is that it does not, but what do I know

Springfield pistols for he past ten years or so, use a titanium firing pin and heavy return spring to perform the same function ( well, almost the same) without any added components.

 

[Three-Five-Seven]

It seems the basic argument against the Series 80 mechanism is that it is not necessary. Colt's attorneys have recommended otherwise for a few decades.

However, Colt's now makes Series 70 pistols with titanium firing pins and enhanced return springs. So, de facto, Colt's admits that the mechanism is unnecessary.

I have felt Series 80 gunz done by good 'smiths that are no different in trigger feel than series 70 guns. But, good 'smiths are sometimes hard to come by.

 

[Rizzo]

Thanks for the input, fellas.

I have felt Series 80 gunz done by good 'smiths that are no different in trigger feel than series 70 guns. But, good 'smiths are sometimes hard to come by.

So, it does affect trigger pull? Also, can anyone explain how the system works, exactly?

 

[brisk21]

I don't like the series 80 as much because it was a mechanism that was added long after the design was perfected. Not a deal breaker, but there is a reason that all the top level 1911 makers use a simple series 70 design. (Wilson Combat, Les Baer, Nighthawk, Springfield Custom, ect....)

 

[brisk21]

Thanks for the input, fellas.




So, it does affect trigger pull? Also, can anyone explain how the system works, exactly?

It can affect trigger pull. The trigger on a series 80 is used to move a lever, pushing up on a plunger unblocking the firing pin. Much like the design on a Glock, not as good in my opinion. There has been reported problems with them in the past. A well built series 80 gun shouldnt be a problem, but I just don't like it.

 

[MajorD]

when you pull the trigger the trigger bar has to push a small lever up which in turn pushes a small plunger up allowing the firing pin to go forward when the hammer drops- so it is extra parts and some will claim it makes the trigger pulls feel more mushy or inconsistent but I haven't found this to be the case- however my only series 80 was worked on by clark custom guns so that may have something to do with it.

 

[faawrenchbndr]

I just picked up a Colt Commander, Series 80 from Rogers Precision.
It's got a silky smooth 3.75 pound, crystal breaking trigger. It's got
all the intact Series 80 parts.

 

[fnfalman]

I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't know much about this system. I did a search for it, and from what I've surmised it's an extra safety feature that Colt started doing with their 1911's in the 80's. Doing a search is one thing, but I much prefer to converse on here with knowledgeable people about it.

What I don't understand is; why do a lot of people seem to dislike it, and prefer the Series 70-style? Does the 80 affect the reliability, or the trigger pull or anything?

I have a Springfield Mil-Spec. Does that have a Series 80-style safety?

This was in the 1980s where guns with multiple safety systems were in the rage (military specifications, civil law suit scares, etc.), so Colt must have felt left out and decided to put in the firing pin safety despite the fact that the M1911A1 already has multiple safety systems (lever, grip safety and half-cock).


PS Just to add that my Colts don't have modifications done to the triggers other than the Gunsite Service Pistol.
Why don't people like it? Because it's stupid to throw in another feature that doesn't need to be there.

Does it affect reliability or trigger pull? Not that I can tell between my Series 80 and Series 70 Colts.

No, Springfields do not have Series 80 safety system. No other M1911 has Series 80 safety system but Colt because it's...well...a Colt Series 80 safety system. Others may have similar systems but not Series 80.

 

[skipsan]

An interesting thread on some apparently well-done drop testing of 1911s of various fp configurations, and calibers on several different surfaces.


http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92823#Post92823

The testing showed that a conventional (steel fp, no fp block) .45acp full-sized
1911 WILL fire regularly when dropped barrel down on a concrete surface from 4 feet. No grip or thumb safety, or half cock notch will make any difference.

A titanium fp and heavy spring will help, but will not prevent firing if the drop height is raised--to six feet.

 

[Rizzo]

Ohh, ok! (Light goes on over head) So, as well as Glock, it's also similar to the trigger-moves-the-firing-pin block system that the Beretta 92 series has, right?

 

[syr74]

I used to be a no FPS devotee, but have since changed my tune after firing well tuned 1911's with the Series 80 FPS that couldn't realistically be discerened from a 1911 without that system. Even more, I fear that so many 1911 manufacturers working with the 'Series 70' setup with no fps is a bit akin to playing with fire.

In our litigation happy society this is merely a gun grabber's front page lawsuit away from placing more than a few gunmakers on the brink of bankruptcy all for the sake of leaving out a device which, when properly fitted, makes no difference in usability or feel. For me it just isn't worth it and, were I to own one of these companies, I wouldn't build a 1911 without a fps..

 

[brisk21]

Ohh, ok! (Light goes on over head) So, as well as Glock, it's also similar to the trigger-moves-the-firing-pin block system that the Beretta 92 series has, right?

Yes. They just crammed it into an already thin 1911 with a single action trigger as opposed to a Beretta or Glock with trigger actions that are more practical for operating a plunger.

 

[fnfalman]

So, how many people going around dropping their guns muzzle first into concrete from 4-ft height?

Before the ninjas and commandos chime in about how you guys are rappelling off Empire State Building and Sears Tower, try a pistol lanyard. It does wonder with keeping guns from hitting the ground.

 

[fnfalman]

I used to be a no FPS devotee, but have since changed my tune after firing well tuned 1911's with the Series 80 FPS that couldn't realistically be discerened from a 1911 without that system. Even more, I fear that so many 1911 manufacturers working with the 'Series 70' setup with no fps is a bit akin to playing with fire.

In our litigation happy society this is merely a gun grabber's front page lawsuit away from placing more than a few gunmakers on the brink of bankruptcy all for the sake of leaving out a device which, when properly fitted, makes no difference in usability or feel. For me it just isn't worth it and, were I to own one of these companies, I wouldn't build a 1911 without a fps..

The Series 80 safety doesn't bother me as much as it used to because when I shot the guns I can't tell the difference in the trigger pulls. However given druthers, I'll take the gun without the Series 80 or any sort of firing pin safety.

Academic is great for discussion and all, but in reality how probable is it?

 

[HAIL CAESAR]

It is a safety design that works off the trigger. When the trigger is pulled the firing pin is unblocked.

Does it affect the trigger pull. Yes, slightly. But the 80 trigger is better than almost any gun on the market. A decent smith can make a 80 trigger VERY good.

There is much "to do" about the 80 safety system.. Most of it is bumpkis.

If you like the idea of an extra safety...get a 80.

If you want the lightest trigger possible of a 1911 and/or never plan on dropping one....get a "70" system.

 

[CAcop]

Here is a pic of the parts.

The two parts in the frame (blue and yellow) are pretty thin. Washer thin.

The part in the slide (red) is almost exactly like a Glock firing pin safety.

Kimber and few others use the Swartz safety system. Colt invented it in the 1920s IIRC and did not use it. Later they came up with the current system.

Even though this is a Smith 945 vs. a Smith 1911 I swear the lever on the left in the pic below looks just like the one in my buddy's Smith 1911. It's supposed to have a Swartz...

 

[Rizzo]

Thanks for the info everyone, and for the pics CAcop.

See, this is why starting a thread is so much better than just doing a search. Nothin' beats holding palaver with people that know what the deal is. :wavey:

 

[syr74]

Academic is great for discussion and all, but in reality how probable is it?

How probably is a drop fire for most modern 1911's? I think a genuinely negligent discharge from a gun still in the users hand is a far more likely possibility in most cases.

How likely is is that the anti gun lobby will use this to try and sue a gunmaker, if not several, into oblivion if they ever figure it out? I would say somewhere close to 100%. They have already tried the 'sue you into submission' approach once before and nearly put a couple of large gun-makers under. And that with lawsuits that were almost universally complete bs.

In the current 'protect people from themselves' era that we live in a newly produced gun that can fire when dropped despite the fact that there is a system that can prevent that if used is, unfortunately, major litigation waiting to happen.