Whataburger Has New Policy That’s Affecting Gun Carrying Customers

Discussion in 'Gun-Control Issues' started by El Pistolero, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. Low_Speed

    Low_Speed

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    Both of this is the problem of the OC. He’s minding his own business. Maybe everyone else should just do the same.


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  2. Low_Speed

    Low_Speed

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    Not any of our problems. It is not our fault if people can’t hold their crap together while an inanimate object on your side.

    A friend likes to quote, “A person’s insecurities should never be your shortcomings.”

    I now use that as a verbal talisman and emotional idiots. Works like magic.


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  3. larry_minn

    larry_minn Silver Member Millennium Member

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    There are done people like that. My understanding is MN law was written so if you were noticed by public, Police... You were still legal. (With permit). Also if it's a hot day, putting gas on, pay at pump.. You don't have to put a jacket on. Jacket, 99f humidity 90% will get more attention then a holstered gun. (Plus risk of heat stroke cleaning windows). ;)
    I seldom open carry. Have a few times by accident.
    Once restraining a state hospital patient on a unescorted off grounds tour.. She had seizure (I had no idea who, what...). I delt with her, got EMS slowed down (manager was yelling "she's not breathing"). So I told dispatch to slow everyone down. Pouring rain that I stopped for lunch in hopes it let up.
    Police, EMS showed, I handed her over, she went off I retrieved her from kitchen, got her on cot, strapped " do you have her??" (They were slightly embarrassed). I then realized my gun, holster was fully exposed. Covered, Officer thanked me for my help, I offered to close his trunk... ( remember pouring rain). He didn't hear 2 nd call to slow down do came in with a O2 bottle expecting CPR. Failed to close his trunk.....;).
    He had to have seen my gun. @1980? Long before MN had decent CCWP law. I think he didn't want to notice.
     
  4. Low_Speed

    Low_Speed

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    Not true. They have a option of allowing CC. Whataburger in this thread says that they don’t mind it. Biggest offender in my area is Ikea which bans both which I know many people ignore. They have the nerve to ban self protection when they have a history of shootings and is a target rich environment.


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  5. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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    I know what they say now. The point is if open carry people continue to piss them off, they will react and it might be an action that bans both.
     
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  6. Low_Speed

    Low_Speed

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    It’s possible. Not likely. Just saying that they could eliminate all confusion is they just put up a 30.07 sign. Hell, Everyone else can do it and you rarely hear a peep from other restaurants around here. If the sign had’ve been up this wouldn’t have even been a story.


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  7. cyphertext

    cyphertext

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    I still don't see why folks care about a sign. You walk up, see a sign and leave... or you walk in, are told they don't allow open carry, so you leave. Same results, you are given notice and you leave.
     
  8. Low_Speed

    Low_Speed

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    People care because with a sign you know what their policies are before you walk in, instead of having a conversation that was needless and it wouldn’t be a news story.

    You would save time and trouble.


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  9. cyphertext

    cyphertext

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    Not necessarily... you are assuming that the sign is placed on the outside door. My local Denny's has it posted in the foyer, after you walk in. Same with Torchie's tacos, and probably several other places.

    So, let me ask this... Taco Cabana has a no OC policy. They do not post a 30.07 sign. They have a small sign, maybe 6" x 6", that states "Out of respect for all of our guests, we respectfully request that guests kindly conceal their licensed weapons, secure them in their vehicles or leave them at home while they are dining in our restaurants. Thank you for your cooperation." Does that suffice? It is not a legal sign therefore you have not been given effective notice by law... Yet, before walking in you know their policy.

    It shouldn't be a news story anyway. Must have been a real slow news day in Big Spring.
     
  10. Low_Speed

    Low_Speed

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    I haven’t been to anyone of those locations that the sign wasn’t posted at the door. Personally, if that was the case I’d notify management and corporate and local management that their sign was posted correctly.

    As far as the Taco Cabana, If it’s not a legal sign ignore it. If it was brought to my attention I would tell them that it was not a legal sign and that if they don’t want OC that they should put up a proper 30.07 sign to keep confusion down.

    Look, you and I aren’t going to agree on this and we don’t have to but the sign cost what, $16. It a cash expenditure that both the business owner and gun owners understand. Just put the sign up!


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  11. cyphertext

    cyphertext

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    The sign inside the foyer is posted legally and correctly... The law states if the sign posted "is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public at each entrance to the property", then it is effective notification. Doesn't say outside, says clearly visible to the public at the entrance.

    Ignoring a non-conforming sign for concealed carry works... for OC, not so much. Walking past a sign prohibiting OC, compliant or not, is stupid. And this is another reason why businesses may chose to not post for OC. You want to look for a loophole with a sign, argue about how it is posted, etc., but once a business owner gives you verbal notification, you must leave or face a class A misdemeanor. Not sure there is any confusion with a sign that prohibits OC.
     
  12. Low_Speed

    Low_Speed

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    I haven’t been to anyone of those locations that the sign wasn’t posted at the door. Personally, if that was the case I’d notify management and corporate and local management that their sign was posted correctly.

    As far as the Taco Cabana, If it’s not a legal sign ignore it. If it was brought to my attention I would tell them that it was not a legal sign and that if they don’t want OC that they should put up a proper 30.07 sign to keep confusion down.

    Look, you and I aren’t going to agree on this and we don’t have to but the sign cost what, $16. It a cash expenditure that both the business owner and gun owners understand. Just put the sign up!


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  13. Low_Speed

    Low_Speed

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    Well, good for them.

    As far as the non-conforming sign for OC, it works just fine. Only thing that’s stupid is not posting the damn sign. There is no real reason not to post a legal sign. Again, the legal sign would eliminate the need for a verbal notification and yes, refusing the verbal request to leave would be trespassing. The Whataburger incident proves that there was and is confusion.

    Just put up the sign. It ain’t hard. Arguing for the sake of arguing is no reason to put one up.


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  14. cyphertext

    cyphertext

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    Do you own a restaurant or retail establishment? Do you understand the idea that your window space can be used for advertising your specials? Those signs are large and take up a lot of valuable space that could be used for advertising.

    There is no "confusion". The guy may not have known about their policy, but he was told that OC was prohibited... He just decided to whine about it to the media. Taco Cabana has a sign. There is no confusion, their policy is clear, yet you state you would walk on in OCing anyway and then be butthurt because they didn't post a "proper" sign. Why? To make a scene? So you can be "that guy"... the look at me OC guy?

    Just like you have the right to choose how to carry, a business owner has the right to choose how to notify you that you are not allowed to OC in his business. Why is that so hard?
     
  15. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

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    First and foremost these restaurants are someone's personal property and as such they have every right to control whether weapons are permitted or not. If I owned a business and felt open carry was driving away business I'd ban it....I'm not asking you to disarm. Just cover up. Do it as a courtesy... Now we both get what we want...you can stay armed and I can keep paying customers from leaving in a panic or from fear.

    You can call me a liberal or any other name you want. Don't care. I'm just trying to make some money.

    Can we no longer be obliging and courteous?

    If I had a restaurant and 4 people come in open carrying AR's I'm quite certain it would cause a good deal of alarm and scare some customers to the point they flee the restaurant... Sorry that's the truth and I'm quite certain many of you would feel the same if you were sitting down to a Whataburger with your family and a group of open carry advocates show up with some ordnance like that...its not normal and nothing you can say or do will change that perception.....don't screw with other people's livelihoods! It common courtesy and common sense...
     
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  16. 'Ol Grandad

    'Ol Grandad Director of civil unrest

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    Open carry would have preven………….oh wait!!
     
  17. nevernuffglock

    nevernuffglock

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  18. Low_Speed

    Low_Speed

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    Irrelevant. Arguing for the sake of arguing. There are literally thousands of businesses in the state that is able to post the sign and advertise without a problem. Been to enough Whataburgers to know that they don’t advertise much.

    There was confusion. Just because this is your time of the month and can’t see it is your problem. It’s so much confusion that there is a website and app dedicated to it. Nothing butthurt about it because I speak to management about it. You could probably use some salve for yours though since you can’t take anyone else’s thoughts on the matter that differ from yours.

    The state gives you a proper way to notify. Had the business used it the threat nor the story would exist. Why is that so hard.


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  19. cyphertext

    cyphertext

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    The state gives you two ways of notifying... oral or written. And written doesn't have to be the sign, it can be a card or other document. Try reading the actual law and understanding what it says.

    Sec. 30.07. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH AN OPENLY CARRIED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:

    (1) openly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and

    (2) received notice that entry on the property by a license holder openly carrying a handgun was forbidden.

    (b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.

    (c) In this section:

    (1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).

    (2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).

    (3) "Written communication" means:

    (A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly"; or

    (B) a sign posted on the property that:

    (i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;

    (ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and

    (iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public at each entrance to the property.

    (d) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200, except that the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if it is shown on the trial of the offense that, after entering the property, the license holder was personally given the notice by oral communication described by Subsection (b) and subsequently failed to depart.

    (e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder openly carries the handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

    (f) It is not a defense to prosecution under this section that the handgun was carried in a shoulder or belt holster.

    (g) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the license holder is volunteer emergency services personnel, as defined by Section 46.01.
     
  20. Low_Speed

    Low_Speed

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    I read it and and my answer still stands. If you don’t like it then tough tittie. Get over yourself. No one here is obligated to agree with you because you think that you are right.


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    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019