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Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by JBnTX, Dec 27, 2012.
Hell, I can do that.
I think you should "take one for the team" on that.
As G26S239 mentioned, an omniscient God would know what would be required for each nonbeliever to believe. It could be many things.
God could levitate the city of New York, appear at a podium under the city, and give a press conference that is simultaneously broadcast on every electronic device in the world in the native tongue of the audience. In the press conference God could explain some scientific question that science has not explained and provide proof of the explanation. It would also help His street cred if He told the Young Earthers to STFU and stop making Him look ridiculous.
It would also be nice if He sent a literate prophet to edit the Old and New Testaments into a single coherent volume that clarified everything that distinguishes the various sects of Christianity, so that there was no room for disagreement, and Christianity really became one single religion instead of thousands.
Oh, wait, while the above would work, he could merely demonstrate to all religious, non-Christians that He was the One True God such that they all converted to Christianity over night. If all Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, ... woke up converted to Christianity, I would be pretty compelled to believe.
God, Satan, Buddha, Allah, Zues...I'd follow and worship any one of them that actually proved they exist and could wipe me off the earth with a lightning strike for blaspheming them..but they're gonna have to put some effort into it..
Like...giant trumpet blasts from the sky..unexplainable by any scientific means..(yeah, I liked that scene from Red State)..
Until then, they're all just "imaginary friends in the sky"...made popular by the those (edited..I wrote something mean here and took it back ) who need/crave/desire attention and reinforcement that they're here on earth for a higher purpose..
More importantly it could be utterly unique and simultaneous for each person being convinced. That would be far more convincing than some single apparent violation of physics or biology.
That being said, if a one eyed guy with two ravens shows up riding an eight legged horse, I'm probably going to start paying attention to what the Eddas say.
The natural (us) cannot know the supernatural (god).
But if there was a god (might be, I'm only an agnostic, not one of those dirty athiests), it would be nice if he came down here (I assume he'd otherwise be up in the sky somewhere) in the form of Charlton Heston as Moses, and hover over us and say he (god, not Heston) screwed up a few things and was going to fix them in the next month, and make things better over the future years. He could give us a list, and we'd see his promises start to come true over the next few days or a month and really notice the change:
1. No more cancer for kids. Old guys past 50 could still get it if they did not live their life right, but no more of that crap for 5 year olds.
2. End of overpopulation. People will have lots of sex, but use birth control and eventually bring the world population down (will take years to notice).
3. No more wars. People will decide to get along, have a beer, and stop shooting over their differences.
4. AR's stay legal. Even though people get along better, target shooting is still fun.
5. Global warming stops. Because snow is fun
6. Freaking toothaches don't hurt quite so much. I get that the pain warns us to stop opening beer bottles with our teeth, but does it have to hurt so much?
It's possible that something that should convince me, would only make me question my sanity.
This is so true!!!
I'd also like a nice long sit down talk with him, maybe a few beers, or wine if he prefers. Some of the subjects I would broach:
Why, exactly, is he worthy of reverence?
What was he trying to accomplish? Are we simply an experiment to feed his ego?
Why, if he loves us so, does he cause horrible things to happen to the most innocent among us?
Why is it that we even have free will, if using it to make a decision he doesn't like only results in punishment? Wouldn't it be simpler and easier for all concerned to simply provide incontrovertible proof so we can make informed decisions?
I'm sure those questions would evolve into a loooooong conversation and would create even more questions.
God would have to show up on Earth, preform miracles, know everything about you without ever having met you, etc...
You know, things that have never happened on Earth.
At least since any semblance of scientific thought that is..
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Ya know...there have been times that I have begged, pleaded and prayed to "god?" in particularly rough patches of my life (akin to how prisoners find god in jail and promptly forget him when released) to show me a sign, show me he exists, speak to me in a dream etc..and what did I get?
I truly would like to believe in a higher being, a god...whatever, I really, really do.. I think life would be grand, actually believing I was going somewhere magical when I died.. Heck, if that's the case, and I believe that, LET'S GET IT ON..I'm ready to die now!
However...I just don't buy it...
It simply isn't logical.. So many thousands of different religions can't all be right...and some differ so much, they're not even close..
I think they're all made-up..and some people (maybe most) are wired to want to believe in something...just like those that believe with their soul (another mythical, invisible thing) that ghosts, martians, black panthers and bigfeet exist too..
I do believe that churches have served a good purpose in teaching good moral values, (not enough to outweigh the millions killed in the name of imaginary friends) but at least the ones in the US teach respect and love your fellow man unlike Islam which teaches you to behead your fellow man..
I'm willing to listen to arguments as to how god exists etc...as I WOULD LOVE to believe..and I'm not being funny, I would love to have the religious convictions of some of my friends who took the hook, line, sinker and the pole too, as they are genuinely good people..
I just can't take them too seriously when they tell me they believe the Jonah and the whale story literally, as well as Noah and the Ark...really I say?
And then there are those who say they don't believe the stories literally and pick and choose which ones to believe literally and say the rest are symbolic...they have even less credibility..
I *think* this would probably do it for me as well, since no one that is dead and decomposed has ever come back to life before. Having them describe the afterlife would be a great benefit in helping the believability of it.
The problem I might have though is the quote from Arthur C Clark, where he said, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
How do I know this entity that came down here and performed these tasks that are beyond my grasp isn't just some super advanced race that is pretending to play god?
Maybe I would just go along the lines of what the supreme court said about porn, which is I'll know it when I see it.
We should all start praying to you then.
Lets start with a birth certificate with a raised seal...
If God could convince the fundie folks they're wrong about creationism and a 10,000 year old Earth, that'd go a long way toward proving God exists and is capable of miracles beyond the reach of modern physics.
Why would God lie to his believers?
...And just to clear things up.
It's the present surface of the Earth that's about 10,000 years old, not the entire Earth.
Oh? Do tell...