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What would cause this?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by 19trax95, Aug 27, 2017.

  1. 19trax95

    19trax95

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    I started reloading 45 acp and made my first test batch. The powder load seems fine but I noted on a couple of rounds, this happened. It's like the case is hitting something and causing a jam. The gun is my kimber 1911 that has never done this before with any ammo, so obviously it's my reloads.

    My initial thoughts are the crimp isn't enough. I do not like to or feel the need to crimp heavily my ammo since its just range ammo. Second thing might be the case over all length. These I set at 1.24" with a 230 grain fmj bullet. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  2. klward3

    klward3

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    My hornady single stage will do that with 38 special reloads if I don't have the brass lined up just perfect during any of the stages. I can feel it when it happens, and it's normally from me trying to go too quickly. Did you feel the hang up? Or am I misunderstanding and you are describing something happening when you chamber your completed reloads?
     

  3. Neldon

    Neldon Hill Country Boy & Proud Navy Veteran. NRA & USCCA Silver Member

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    Ask Fredj338, happie2shoot, or weewillie. They are all experts on reloading.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  4. 9x45

    9x45 Millennium Member

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    What press are you running?
     
  5. Three-Five-Seven

    Three-Five-Seven Señor Mombo Millennium Member

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    You haven't removed enough of the bell in the "crimping" operation. In technical terms, you need to squish the brass a little bit closer to the bullet.
     
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  6. 19trax95

    19trax95

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    I am using a rock chucker and lee dies. I will try and experiment with the seating/crimp die and see if I can't get that to smooth out a bit.
     
  7. jmorris

    jmorris

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    [​IMG]

    That looks like enough crimp.

    That and the lack of any mark on the bullet that I can see makes me think you damaged the case by not having it all the way in the shell plate before you raised it into the expander die, dinging the edge.
     
  8. 19trax95

    19trax95

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    That was after it came out of the gun. It looked fine to me after I pressed the bullet in. I went to the range and most of them went fine but a couple of them jammed the gun and that's what they looked like after I manually ejected the round.
     
  9. jmorris

    jmorris

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    What is it contacting to cause that damage?

    Put a sharpie mark of the top of the case when you put one in the mag, chamber it then eject and see at what "o'clock" position the damage is caused at.

    I can load empty cases into a magazine and not get damage like that, chambering from slide lock. So, I have to wonder what it's hitting to cause a ding like that.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_W2LyTQVrs

    You could always try more crimp and see if it goes away, won't cost you anything if that fixes the problem or not.

    Do you have a case gauge?
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  10. refugeepj

    refugeepj

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    happens during the bell/charge.
    center better your brass better.
     
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  11. klward3

    klward3

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    This is what I was saying too. I'd make sure to inspect that this isn't happening during your reloading process. I had 2 just like it the other day during the belling step.
     
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  12. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan

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    I would have bet the case hit the seating or crimp die. In any event, my opinion is that the taper crimp is not nearly enough. You really shouldn't see daylight between the case and the bullet.

    I usually take the crimped round and put it in a pair of calipers running long ways. Then I hold the assembly up to a light and I want to see just a little light at the front of the case. Just a smidge. If I use the calipers to measure at the case mouth and then back at a wider spot where the body of the bullet is defining the case diameter, I expect to see the case mouth about 0.004" smaller.

    You are using a separate taper crimp die, right? It's hard to get the right taper in a combination die. In some calibers, like .38 or .357, there are two different crimp dies: One is rolled for revolvers and the other is tapered for semi-autos (like the S&W 52).

    Of course, using a separate taper crimp die with a single stage press is a real PITA.

    I don't know enough about the Kimber feed ramp to say how it could have happened during chambering but nothing much surprises me.

    Page 56 of the SAAMI standards gives the case mouth diameter as 0.4730.

    http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf

    Another hint: When you tighten down the lock ring on your dies, have a case fully seated in the shell holder to help center up the die.
     
  13. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    Very difficult to say just from the picture. If that damage was not on the case before it was chambered, something is amiss in your gun in any case.

    You may be able to treat the symptom by adding a little more crimp. With FMJ you have a pretty wide range of "acceptable" with the crimp as the bullets are pretty tough and not easily damaged with too much crimp (within reason).

    Normally the proper crimp on a rimless caliber like 45 Auto is just returning the case mouth to straight. Many competitive shooters crimp their case mouths just past that to make sure the case mouth doesn't snag on the feed ramp or roof of the chamber as it goes in.

    But first and foremost, you need to make sure that damage wasn't caused by one of the dies in your reloading process. After that, add a little crimp so the case mouth is just slightly curved in (I mean JUST SLIGHTLY, like barely able to see), then finally look at the gun, maybe take it to a competent 1911 smith along with one of the damaged rounds, etc.
     
  14. 19trax95

    19trax95

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    I should have taken a picture of how the two rounds that got stuck up looked like.

    But basically what it looked like what the edge of the case hit the top of the chamber, obviously not allowing the slide to return to battery. That's also where the damage to the case occurred.

    I do not think it's the gun since I have 750 rounds though it so far and I ran a box of 50 American eagle through it after this happened and those all ran fine. So it was just these two reloads out of 30 that had the issue.

    I checked my dies last night and they are free from damage.

    I will try and increase the crimp a tiny bit and make some dummy rounds with juat the case and bullet then manually cycle the gun a bunch if times to see if I can recreate the issue. If I can't I'll load a few live ones and test them.
     
  15. 9x45

    9x45 Millennium Member

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    Crimp is misleading. You only need enough to de-bell the case. Most semi auto's are nearly straight walled and have very little crimp at all. Only put enough bell on the case to just barely seat the bullet, and only enough de-bell to drop into a case gage, or drop into the barrel of the gun you using, called the plunk test. You can see almost no de-bell at all on these 9mm's that I run. Left is a 124 flat nose Bayou, right is a 124 Black and Blue truncated cone. Both are the HiTeK coated bullets. Load is the same for each, 3.4 grains of TiteGroup, OAL on the left is 1.130", on the right is 1.100". Both go just about 1,050 fps out of a Glock 17 with a BarSto barrel, makes the minor power floor for USPSA.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. alank2

    alank2

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    I've had this happen if a case isn't fully centered in the die, or the belling was too much/too little, or the bullet wasn't seated well (centered enough).

    One safety test is to run all your finished rounds through a case gauge - it will catch issues like this before the round makes it to the gun...
     
  17. fredj338

    fredj338

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    If it is NOT happening during reloading, try a little longer OAL, & a little more crimp. Something is snagging the feed ramp as it chambers. Look closely at your bbl, make sure everything is smooth, no burrs.
     
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  18. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan

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    It's pretty difficult for brass to damage a steel die, even harder with carbide. One thing Dillon does is put a ginormous bevel at the opening of the seating die and a more modest bevel for the taper crimp die.
    http://dillonhelp.com/Dillon Manual PDFs/april-2015_dillon-die-instructions.pdf

    I have seen this happen when the barrel has a sharp edge to the upper portion of the chamber. I suspect a wee bit more crimp will solve the problem.
     
  19. fredj338

    fredj338

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    OR have that chamber polished at the feed ramp.
     
  20. usnret

    usnret

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    Part of the problem might be caused by trying to seat the bullet while crimping it during the same step. They should be separate steps.