What one pipeline can do to a region . . .

Discussion in 'Survival/Preparedness Forum' started by Morris, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. Morris

    Morris CLM

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  2. bdcochran

    bdcochran

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    Two kinds of problems in the world - the kind you can do something about and the kind you cannot do anything about. Focus on the first. I will give an example of the second. A terrorist steals a large propane delivery truck. Propane is heavier than air. He take the truck to downtown Los Angeles and pumps it in the sewer line. He has a detonator set for 20 minutes later. Then sewer line down to El Segundo is blown and it costs billions to replace.

    I knew about the northern shooting. If the company does nothing further, there is certainly nothing that you can do - so don't worry about it.
     
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  3. Morris

    Morris CLM

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    Actually, it's more a systemic problem. In the early 90s, my wife was with the federal DOT IG team that examined pipeline distribution systems in the Northwest. Even then, it was fragile with minimal maintenance being performed as well as little protection against potential criminal acts.
     
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  4. janice6

    janice6

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    Saboteurs in the Puget Sound area, unpossible! Those liberal politicians would rather lose their Starbucks than allow people to upset the American lifestyle of, "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country!

    Anyone that moves to create tension by allowing uncivil activities would shortly be dealt with by the local government, which has only the safety, health, civil and lawful interests of the citizens in mind.

    Except for: Antifa, homeless crapping in the city, crime in the name of "freedom from oppression", shielding illegal immigration, taxing the life out of the residents, paying those who don't want to work.

    Except for these, the local government is interested in raising wages in spite of the economics, losing businesses, supporting insurrection, and blocking Federal Constitutional laws of the land.

    Couldn't happen in this mecca of Sanctuary cities!
     
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  5. DJ Niner

    DJ Niner Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm not entirely sure, but I think I detected a whiff of sarcasm in there. Just a hint of it.

    :supergrin:
     
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  6. janice6

    janice6

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    Damn...……… I was trying to be so subtle......
     
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  7. FullClip

    FullClip Native Mainiac CLM

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    Yup, natural gas pipe lines and the electrical grid could be very easily messed with by a very few people and cause a lot of chaos with little chance of them being caught. Lot of weak ponts out on the sticks with easy access and lot of escape routes.
     
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  8. fasteddie565

    fasteddie565 Combat Diver

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    Its not that easy. Propane has one of the smallest flammability ranges (LEL = 2.1 | UEL = 9.5), meaning, like a carburetor, if the mixture is too lean or too rich, it won't deflagrate. Also, without the ends of the pipe being somewhat enclosed, the over pressure follows the path of least resistance. Coupled with the fact that the sewer is encased in earth, I think your consequence analysis is a bit high.
     
  9. bdcochran

    bdcochran

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    Maybe. The point I am trying to make is that there are a number of risks/dangers in the world. Since 09/11, the local utilities have been building fences where none existed in the past, placed large boulders around substations in my city, installed cameras and on and on. Those efforts do not improve the local 7 minute police response time. In fact, when a girl friend had two guys in her gated and fenced backyard breaking in on a Christmas eve, it took the cops over 1/2 hour to respond. The two guys fed the cops a story that they were trying to hide in her house to escape other gang members was swallowed whole and no charges brought.

    Or, more conventionally, some bad guy can plant a truck bomb close enough to a major building/major bridge/dam. We have a local politician who used the last hysteria to propose that every car taking the bridge from the Port of Los Angeles to San Pedro be stopped and inspected. You can not prepare for all uncertainties. And when you prepare for one (with political fanfare), a bad guy figures out a different attack.
     
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  10. fasteddie565

    fasteddie565 Combat Diver

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    I do this for a living, and I agree. You can what-if anything to death. My response time averages well over an hour (1:20 to 1:45). Critical infrastructure owner / operators do what they have to in order to meet the regulation, which is typically enforced by someone with little or no security risk management training.
     
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  11. bdcochran

    bdcochran

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    Oh I forget another real one. At one time, the IRS was in my bank building in West Los Angeles on Olympic Blvd. A disgruntled taxpayer put I think a pickup truck filled with propane containers and tried to set it off. Assistant U.S. Attorney George Newhouse said a bomb Hicks planted in a truck at a Los Angeles IRS office in 1990 could have leveled two city blocks if it had exploded.

    I can't spend the time worrying about things I can't control.