What mammal can take a 220 grain at 1300fps and 715+ ft.lbs to the skull and live

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by OrangeDot, Apr 24, 2018.

  1. Yes, a G40 (orG20) would be all I need

    79 vote(s)
    62.7%
  2. No, I do not trust that a G40 gets the job done. I want a bigger handgun even with only 5-6 rounds

    19 vote(s)
    15.1%
  3. I do not trust either one above. I carry a rifle, shotgun or cannon while in the woods

    23 vote(s)
    18.3%
  4. None of the above, I only need pepper spray and a whistle

    5 vote(s)
    4.0%
  1. OrangeDot

    OrangeDot

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    It seems that too many people feel like they need a cannon or the like when in the woods to protect themselves from large animals.

    Can anyone tell me why they think any mammal (take your pick) with their hide/bones, etc. can take a 220 grain going at 1300+ fps and delivering more then 725fps.lbs to the skull or heart area and live?

    Just wondering? Is it that they think they will not be able to hit the head or vitals in the few available seconds they have and a bigger handgun might stop the charging animal even if hit in the leg for example?

    I for one trust my G40 10mm with Underwood 220 grain hard casts 15+1 to get the job done no matter where I am in the woods. I have a KKM 6" barrel and stainless recoil spring upgrades.

    Would like to hear your point of view/vote whether you share my view or not. And why if applicable? Cheers. :)
     
  2. Dog Soldier

    Dog Soldier NRA Benefactor

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    Facing 700 pounds of Grizz attacking at 41 miles per hour is often the last thing a victim sees. Your rifle is usually lost during the first charge. If you have a cross the chest holster and a large caliber handgun you might survive. The 10 MM has a good record in the close encounters.:drillsgt:
     
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  3. Just Glocks

    Just Glocks

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    I think you should always have a 11 or 12 inch fighting Bowie on you at all time as a last ditch effort !
     
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  4. Dog Soldier

    Dog Soldier NRA Benefactor

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    Yes, you are right. I have known many who have survived and a few who did not. A fellow High Country guide was attacked some years ago.
    His rifle was lost in the initial charge. He was semi-consensus and blinded from the shock. His partner finished the bear in the last moments. He firmly believes however even blinded he could have stopped the bear hug with a handgun. He always carries 2 Glock 10 MMs these days.:dunno: :drillsgt:
     
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  5. Bradley T

    Bradley T

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    Love carrying a good rifle though. No bears or lions here, but stay up late enough and you'll see a few zombies. I wish I had a G20 just because.
     
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  6. Dog Soldier

    Dog Soldier NRA Benefactor

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    I have carried .44 Mags, .45 Win Mags etc for years. In bear country a cross chest holster rig. After seeing the effectiveness of the 200 Grs 10MM I was impressed.
    I was late coming to the 10 MM but it is a hand loaders round. It matters not where you live. The 10 MM is in my opinion a great choice. Hope you own one some day. :drillsgt:
     
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  7. Deltic

    Deltic

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    "What mammal can take a 220 grain at 1300fps and 715+ ft.lbs to the skull and live"

    I'll let you guys try it on hippo's, cape buffalo and so on. I'm not saying it can't work but I will say it could fail.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2018
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  8. Pete perfection

    Pete perfection

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    Hillary Clinton probably could. Or I'd like to see what would happen.
     
  9. fredj338

    fredj338

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    If one could be assured of hitting the brain bucket of a fast moving animal 100% of the time, 9mm ball would be all one needs.
     
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  10. tjpet

    tjpet

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    A .40 caliber, non-expanding bullet will penetrate well. But unless it drills skull on the big stuff it's not effective. Add the fact that you need a tapered or roundish nosed bullet to feed reliably initial impact is negated. Ten years of conventional pistol/revolver BG hunting with lead bullets proved two things to me: 1.) the bigger the caliber the better 2.) the wider the meplat/heavier weight bullet was best. Velocity had to be good but not necessarly fast. I finally settled on the .45 Colt with 300gr KT bullets at 900fps. When the WFN bullet designs showed up I switched over. For sheer brute force and killing power they're the best.
     
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  11. Geeorge

    Geeorge Sarcasm Inc.

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    Rosie O'Dogface laughs at your puny little gun
     
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  12. RichardB

    RichardB Matthew 25:31-46

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    I think the issue is not whether the bear or rhino dies but is Momma Bear stopped before you die if using a hnadgun. I vote with tjpet, big Revolver with big hunting cartridges that might jam in an automatic handgun. 12 guage slugs are best.
     
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  13. NYhunter518

    NYhunter518

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    I agree, big wide flat bullets kill critters in short order, but in a bear attack situation I want my Glock 20 with some 200+gn hardcast. Accuracy by volume is what I’m after. Big griz is close enough to smell your breath and closing aiming isn’t on anyone’s mind pulling the trigger until it won’t go anymore is way more feasible. I bet I can unload my G20 into a target 10ft away faster than I can my 454 casual probably with similar accuracy but with 3X’s more bullets on target.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  14. tjpet

    tjpet

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    I agree, if the preferred method of death is to literally fill them full of lead a G20 w/15 round mag would be a good course of action.
    I'll stick to the big bores myself.
     
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  15. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan NRA Life Member.

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  16. fredj338

    fredj338

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    In big bear country, I carry a 4" m29, 270gr lfp @ 1100fps. Its fast & controllable for the penetration it delivers. A 45colt with 285gr lswc running about the same works equally well. Both penetrate as much as 400gr softs from my 404jeffery, which is deep. Yes I could load hotter but there is a balance of accuracy @ speed, one hand accuracy.
    I like the 10, have g20sf for a lighter trail gun where I dont expect grizzly. 195gr lwnfp @ 1200fps should be fine for anything else. 1st shot time to targets are the same, transitions with the 10 are a bit faster. If I had to choose the 10 for edc in grizzly country I could live with that though. Like most things, right bullet, right place.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  17. Taco Junkie

    Taco Junkie Practically a saint

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    Pitbull

    Let the flames commence :devilish:

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Yeah a lot of curved bone there. Rn bullets tend to skip off that, pistol, even rifle.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2018
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  19. arkdweller22

    arkdweller22 Cuhootnified Roamer

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    Despite what HK marketing tells you, every firearm is a compromise.
    I see the logic in the 10MM Glock as well as the 460 S&W, 300 WinMag and 12 Gauge.

    There many other, more important factors than the "power" of the firearm.
    Are you proficient with it? Enough to deploy effectively without conscious thought, by instinct as it were; injured?
    Can you carry the weight for the time in which you'll be in the backcountry?
    Are you hunting, hiking, bird-watching? It all matters.

    Most people want to put as much power as they can into the animal in the first shot or two. It makes sense as that will stop the fight faster than launching 10-15 rounds, if you can get that many off in the time allotted.

    To actually answer your question though: if your shot placement is accurate, no, I don't think that there's a mammal out there that can survive that shot. Will it kill you before it dies? Only if your shot placement was less than optimal. Optimal being the operative word.
    If your shot placement sucks, the animal might still die, but so will you.

    Personally, I'm confident in my skill at arms with a G40 or G20 and I carry and practice with a G29. I'm pretty good with a DA revolver, but not quite as much. So I have and will continue to take 10MM Glocks out to the woods and concrete jungles of the world.
    But, as the saying goes: "you pays your money, you takes your chances."
     
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  20. fredj338

    fredj338

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    A violent attack by a bear or other large dangerous animal will happen at feet, not yards. Especially bears. You don't get to start hosing them down at 25y, more like 10y. Moving, bobbing target is what the head presents. Miss that, likely, then your bullet needs to deliver a stunning blow that will penetrate deep into the shoulder or neck if that is where your missed head shot ends up, likely.