What makes a gun accurate?

1641 Views 25 Replies 15 Participants Last post by revo, Sep 12, 2006

HEAVY

Discussion Starter · Aug 22, 2006

i'm pretty sure its a combination of many things like bullet, barrel, operator proficiency, etc.

but what is the single most important factor that affects accuracy, say i use the same lot of the same ammo.

put another way, if i have a limited amount of money, and i want to make my gun more accurate than it is now, (say my gun is a bone stock 1911) on what should i invest my money on? (practice, i know, but what else?)

match barrel?

fitting?

secret sauce?

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

Eye Cutter

· #2 · Aug 22, 2006

accdg. to an ed brown article i read, it is more important that there be minimal side-to-side play in the muzzle end than the up and down movement at the breech portion.

change the stock, loose barrel bushing with an oversize match bushing.

foxyyy

· #3 · Aug 22, 2006

F-I-T-T-I-N-G!!!

mapa bushing o mapa bull man iyan. =)

Allegra

· #4 · Aug 22, 2006

To answer your question : a nice crisp trigger
Kahit ang ganda ng barrel or fitting I just cant stand crappy trigger pulls

PEro the biggest factor besides practice? e di training
Magkano barrel? 10t?
Punta ka kay Boy Abu or Lito Pible or Allegra....Ahem and give them 5t then buy 5t worth of ammo
Sabihin mo , you want to be able to put 5 shots in the A zone at 25m in under 4 sec from the draw , at matuto mag splits ng napakabilis

I doubt you can do these things just by changing barrels o fitting

horge

· #5 · Aug 22, 2006

Originally posted by Allegra
To answer your question : a nice crisp trigger
Kahit ang ganda ng barrel or fitting I just cant stand crappy trigger pulls

Amen... if the trigger isn't smooth, worse still if it's long
and heavy: you WILL get lateral play like Doc Alvin describes,
magnified further forwards at the muzzle! Keep in mind how the
joints of the trigger finger bend: it's tough enough to keep a
trigger pull as purely-rearward as possible, e, if the motion
becomes uneven because of a gritty trigger pa... 'ala na.

Tradeoff nga lang. You can lighten a trigger to get a quicker,
smoother pull, but the safety issues should be apparent.

Allegra

· #6 · Aug 22, 2006

Originally posted by horge
Amen... if the trigger isn't smooth, worse still if it's long
and heavy: you WILL get lateral play like Doc Alvin describes,
magnified further forwards at the muzzle! Keep in mind how the
joints of the trigger finger bend: it's tough enough to keep a
trigger pull as purely-rearward as possible, e, if the motion
becomes uneven because of a gritty trigger pa... 'ala na.

Tradeoff nga lang. You can lighten a trigger to get a quicker,
smoother pull, but the safety issues should be apparent.

it doesnt need to be light, it can be 6lbs
the old pistoleros describe it as crisp as a glass rod breaking

jasonub

· #7 · Aug 23, 2006

dami factors, equipment, load, and knowing how to shoot precision shots at long distances. Lito designated me as official long range group shooter to test their loads and pistol accuracy.

So far most of our pistols group the same at 35 meters. about 2-4"

btw mine usually puts 3 rounds on the same hole in that distance and opens up the group by 2 inches with 2 flyers.

I suggest fitting and a good trigger pull and to test how accurate your pistol is let a precision shooter try it at about 25-40 meters. the farther, the more unforgiving.

I also load long so that there will be less "bullet jump". If you notice on good match rifles when you chamber a round and unchamber it, you will see bite marks on the bullet head caused by the lands and grooves of the barrel- here in this case, there is no bullet jump.

also bullet and loads are also tested on what your particular pistol/barrel combination wants.

for practical shooting 2" at 25 meters is more than enough.

My pistol likes n320 around 4.7 grains on a 180 lead (stronghand) head loaded to 1.210" major load na and it punches consistent 1" groups at 25 meters.- tested a lot of loads and weights for about 6 months till i got this pet load. Which i dont use since mahal n320 at mausok ang lead

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revo

· #8 · Aug 23, 2006

Originally posted by HEAVY

put another way, if i have a limited amount of money, and i want to make my gun more accurate than it is now, (say my gun is a bone stock 1911) on what should i invest my money on? (practice, i know, but what else?)

If you already purchased the gun, then you've already passed the point of no return.

The most money savings savings can be obtained by an accurate base gun in the first place.

The rock-solid, out-of-the-box-accurate guns with best value are from the brand names - Kimber, Colt, Springfield, Para-Ordnance, etc. that have a known history of excellence.

But if you have an inaccurate gun in the first place there is , unfortunately, no free lunch.

In his book 'The Colt .45 automatic', Jerry Kuhnhausen lists three top factors of equal importance for accuracy -

1) correct fit betw barrel and bushing
2) correct fit betw barrel hood and slide
3) correct fit vertical barrel lock-up

Tha above accounts for 60% of mechanical repeatability. The rest of the 40% is due to slide play, match barrel and headspace and others.

To get to the 60% I say you need about US$500 or its equivalent. TO get further than that, you need more money. You need much more money if you have a very inaccurate gun in the first place.

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isuzu

· #9 · Aug 23, 2006

Originally posted by revo
1) correct fit betw barrel and bushing
2) correct fit betw barrel hood and slide
3) correct fit vertical barrel lock-up

They are the most important things to look after in order to have an accurate 1911, according to my gunsmith.

If you don't have a good lockup, chances are you'll eventually shear the locking lugs and the area in the barrel where the barrel link connects to the slide stop.

I've seen a .38 Super that had a Bar-Sto that was improperly fitted in the late 80's. The barrel was damaged. Sayang.

horge

· #10 · Aug 23, 2006

Originally posted by Allegra
it doesnt need to be light, it can be 6lbs
the old pistoleros describe it as crisp as a glass rod breaking

I'm accustomed to older DA triggers, so from my non-comp POV,
your 6 lbs. isn't heavy at all. Personally, I like mine no lower
than 4.

Pulling a trigger, like almost any muscular exertion, produces
vibration and unwanted tremors, hence the advantage in a
trigger pull that doesn't take much force.

I've read the analogy a few times before (the glass rod).
Especially if you're sniping from a rest, or from a
bolt-upright-whatcha-need-cover-for-anyway Weaver, it makes
real sense: you're rock-solid stationary, then CRACK,
the hammer drops, and for lack of any other motion, POA=POI.

I've yet to meet a trigger like that, though, hehe, since
even a glass rod deforms (creeps, if you like) before
catastrophic failure.

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HEAVY

Discussion Starter · #11 · Aug 23, 2006

1) correct fit betw barrel and bushing
2) correct fit betw barrel hood and slide
3) correct fit vertical barrel lock-up

the first 2 i understand, the 3rd pwede po paki-explain pa konti. medyo mechanically-challenged ako e.

Eye Cutter

· #12 · Aug 23, 2006

press the barrel when the pistol is in battery sa ejection port. dapat wala or very small ang up and down movement ng barrel dito. as i've previously pointed out, most stock pistols will have a "loose" fitting for reliability more than accuracy.

some inexperienced smiths will try to make the 1911 into a fixed barrel design for superior accuracy. remember, the 1911 tilts down during cycling. they make the barrel fit so tight that there is almost no movement at all of the barrel in the slide and frame. the barrel lug can shear off during cycling if there is no free movement of the barrel to tilt down at the breech area.

3kings

· #13 · Aug 23, 2006

...i think the shooter plays a vital role too

antediluvianist

· #14 · Sep 5, 2006

The most important thing in handgun shooting is distance to the target. 3 meters = most people can hit the 10 ring frequently. 30 meters = forget it.

mtho

· #15 · Sep 5, 2006

check your barrel crown also, if it is damaged it will shoot erratic or keyhole, you can have it recrowned or cleaned if it just have excess lead deposit.

change or build up the bushing it not fitted properly, you can also build up on the hood area if its too loose.

find you pet load also. bullet weight and powder load matters a lot, look at the accuracy test on the gun magazines they use different brands of ammo with differnt loads and bullet weight and have varied results on the same gun.

revo

· #16 · Sep 6, 2006

Originally posted by antediluvianist
The most important thing in handgun shooting is distance to the target. 3 meters = most people can hit the 10 ring frequently. 30 meters = forget it.

I think he was asking as to what makes a gun accurate compared to another similar gun.

antediluvianist

· #17 · Sep 6, 2006

It's a joke.

royal glockster

· #18 · Sep 8, 2006

yes, like foxyyy said, pistol accuracy boils down to "fitting" which is why most custom-made 1911s are more accurate than out-of-the box production guns. I can vouch this mga bro, because my STI is more accurate than my PT92. However, i would say that PT92 is more reliable (when it comes to ammo feeding probably due to loose fitting ) as compared to my STI though that's another issue to discuss..

eclipse1

· #19 · Sep 8, 2006

person behind the gun..........

HEAVY

Discussion Starter · #20 · Sep 9, 2006

Originally posted by eclipse1
person behind the gun..........

of course.

but between two identical guns, what makes one shoot better groups than the other?

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

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