What is the best Non Lethal Option??

Discussion in 'Tactics and Training' started by Stepaway, Mar 14, 2010.

  1. Stepaway

    Stepaway Citified

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    The only two non lethal options I currently have are prayer and my feet. Since I'm in my late 50's running away will get less and less effective. I'm going to assume that if I'm in a jam that prayer hasn't worked so well. Please don't suggest martial arts training - the only thing that's in good shape is my mouth.

    From what I have read, self defense is about (1) distance - how much and how fast you can put between you and the threat (2) movement - if you can't run away, how well and how fast can you maneuver around the threat and (3) discouragement - what do you have that can discourage the threat - size, martial arts training, knife or ultimately the gun.

    I need to know which non lethal option is most effective - e.g. pepper spray. flashlight, cane etc. PLEASE don't reply if you haven't been in a life threatening situation. I see a lot of posts on these forums from folks who have watched too much tv. Even a lot of the dvd's and books I have looked at are full of ballet like maneuvers that can't possibly work on the street. I need real advice, thanks.
     
  2. sapper1911

    sapper1911

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    Canes, flashlights, and other impact devices can be of great help but does require some (martial arts) training. Don't worry so much about your shape, there are many average joes that recieve such training. I'd look into one of the philipino stick/knife styles such as modern arnis.

    Im not a big fan of O.C. spray. It tends to get everywere and blind all parties. It is also not very effictive on determined and/or intoxicated persons (the kind one is most likley to face).

    You can also check out the new personal sized tasers.
     

  3. David Armstrong

    David Armstrong

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    There is no "best", only "different". The cane is a good choice, and does not take much training to use effectively, and one certainly doesn't need any type of martial arts training for cane use. And there is a reason OC spray has become almost mandatory for LE carry---it works and works quite well. I recommend Fox brand.
     
  4. beatcop

    beatcop

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    It's "you", not the weapon system.

    If your mindset is to leave asap, pepperspray can buy you some time. It takes a while for the full burn to kick in, so start running instantly. As the spray starts running into the eyes an opponents ability to run after you starts to decline...tough to avoing running into cars, poles, etc when you start to zig and zag. You CAN fight through OC, so don't stick around and grapple.

    Taser works great when you hit the target...ok, now what? As soon as the ride is over, it's game on again. I've been around for taser deployments under stress, a lot of first shot misses...targets don't stand still.

    I'd say just get a couple cans of good spray...door pocket and pants when out...near the door when home.
     
  5. Max1775

    Max1775 Marine Infidel

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    The best weapon is the one that you have on you. I'd say if you are older and not in all that great of shape, a cane is a hell of a tool for walking and self defense. You'd be surprised how bad they hurt. I carried one for a long time after a hip replacement and still kinda miss it.

    Stun gun comes in second for me (2 million volt variety). They have to be close, but usually are anyway. Tazer gun goes along with this one, but 2 many people miss and you end up close and personal anyway. You can use the Tazer as a stun gun if remove the cartridge.

    My next choice would be spray. Works in lots of situations, but blowback is an issue. Nothing like incapacitating yourself for your attacker.

    Not a fan of flashlights. Impractical for the typical person. Heavy, cumbersome and hard to carry.
     
  6. beatcop

    beatcop

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    I have been on the receiving end of oc/taser...a stun gun is useless in my opinion. If you want to stand your ground trying to "zap" someone with a stun gun, it will result in momentary pain, but not compliance or render someone incapacitated.

    A Taser will disrupt muscular control (can't move), but now you're sticking around to press the switch. I believe the civilian tasers have a longer duration (30 sec)...you could drop it and run, but I'm not leaving $500 on the ground.

    If your goal is to beat a hasty retreat and tilt the odds in your favor, the most cost effective and safest seems to be OC. Yup, a cane is nice, but can also be used to smash your head in. It's easy to defend spray & retreat against a bad guy, a little harder when you break someone's eye socket, etc.

    Just my humble advice.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  7. ssfeldjager

    ssfeldjager

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    Baseball bats. Aluminum makes a "ping" noise, though. Wood bats are much quieter.
     
  8. Glock-it-to-me

    Glock-it-to-me Catching liars

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  9. inthefrey

    inthefrey Moved on...

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  10. Stepaway

    Stepaway Citified

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    I am going to adopt the porcupine defense - other animals leave the porcupine alone not because he's big or fast or agile. They leave him alone because he appears to be more trouble than he's worth. With what I am learning on these forums I will just become more trouble than its worth to bother me. Thanks guys.
     
  11. Max1775

    Max1775 Marine Infidel

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    There is never a bridge that bold men will not cross...
     
  12. Rubicon46804

    Rubicon46804 Glock Armorer

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    For a less than lethal option, I'm a big fan of the Taser International Civilian Taser. Once deployed, it sends a 30 second pulse, unless switched off. This should give you plenty of time to get away from the situation. Drop the taser and run! Once you complete a police report and submit it to Taser International, they will replace the taser unit that you dropped at the scene at No Charge! The Civilian units with a laser pointer sell for around $300.
     
  13. Edwood

    Edwood Todo por México

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    12 gauge nonlethal round
    I got a lot of practice whit this round a few years back in a Tijuana prison riot. :faint:


    <a href="http://s840.photobucket.com/albums/zz325/Ninja_serv/?action=view&current=ALS1210S_243194541_std.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz325/Ninja_serv/ALS1210S_243194541_std.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
     
  14. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    Edwood! You live!


    It's great to see you posting.
     
  15. MTPD

    MTPD

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    The only non-lethal items I carry are FOX PEPPER SPRAY and a heavy-duty CANE. I'm older and in poor health, so...............no H2H for me any more.

    I grew up with 2 guys who were state heaveyweight wrestling champs (2 years apart) so I know for sure I'm not the toughest guy on the street. One of them liked to find VW's parked by the curb and lift them up onto the sidewalk, one end at a time, and leave them that way. These guys could take 3-4 guys my size with no sweat. So...........I have a CHL and carry a 9mm equalizer!
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2010
  16. Dreamaster

    Dreamaster

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    Full powered roundhouse kick to the temple. Lights out, game over, but non-lethal.
     
  17. btmj

    btmj

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    Many years ago (I was in highschool... 1982-ish?) there was a story in the St. Louis Post Dispatch about an old man who was attacked by four thugs. The old man had a cane, but the thugs had knives and baseball bats. It was four to one, and the victim was using a cane because he did not walk real well. I am trying to recall his age, 78 sticks in my mind, but that seems too old... in any case it is 4 young guys engaging in armed hand-to-hand combat against a 70+ year old man with a bum leg.

    Except this particular gentleman had been, in his youth, the champion of the St. Louis Negro boxing league. He had fought a few pro fights until his family made him quit.

    So he has the brain, the eye, and the heart of a fighter.

    It ends up that the four thugs are all in the hospital, one of them goes blind in one eye, another has brain damage. The old dude tears a ligament in his shoulder, or something like that.

    All through college I kept the article, and I wish I still had it.

    Your brain is your real weapon. Everything else is just an extension of your hand. But more to the point, a heavy bludgeon weapon of 30 to 36 inches is extremely effective at arms length, and it can be lethal. I can't think of a non-firearm weapon I would prefer over a cane or staff-type weapon, except perhaps a sword.
     
  18. ssfeldjager

    ssfeldjager

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    The "brain damage" wasn't caused by the old guy; it was a pre-existing condition. Failure of the "creator" of the "thugs" to use a prophylactic. :rofl::rofl::rofl: