What is "Middle Class" ?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by certifiedfunds, Feb 5, 2010.

  1. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    Seems most people define themselves as "Middle Class". The left tries to define it with a dollar amount. Yet even folks above that dollar amount often consider themselves "Middle Class".

    How do YOU define it?
     
  2. themiller

    themiller

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    Middle class: roof over head, food on table, job that doesn't involve hazardous activity (by choice), not living paycheck to paycheck, ability to take modest vacation (within 100 or so mi) ever year, and still save a bit for retirement.

    That is my definition of middle class.

    I work for people in multi-million dollar homes/condos (paid for in cash) with millions in investments, and cars/assets out their behinds, and of course, they're middle class too... :upeyes:

    NOTE: I am VERY happy with where I am in life. I consider myself upper-middle class, as I am able to save quite a bit, have a nice place to live (2br/1ba apartment), and never want (other than the occassional Ferrari -lol), can go out to eat whenever I want at decent restaurants, and have a job that does not endanger my health.

    Always remember that your situation can change for the worse in an instant - what I live by.

    Edit: My definition of middle class family income $$$ is 50k-100k, upper middle class 100k-500k. Above that - don't **** yourself, you're not middle class no matter the COL, I live in Chicago ffs.
     

  3. boozer

    boozer

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    I'm upper middle poverty.
     
  4. CZ guy

    CZ guy

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    The middle class are those who enable the upper 1% to become billionaires and pay the bills for those who choose not to contribute to society.
     
  5. Mr_C

    Mr_C NRA, GOA member

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    I agree with "themiller" with the exception of "not living paycheck to paycheck". Many middle class and above are surprsingly good at continuing to live paycheck by paycheck by living outside of thier means. I know of one guy locally who had a very good paying job (top end of your upper middle class definition or above) and had been making that money for a while, but he spent it like it was on fire, and when he lost his job, everything else went too cause he couldn't make the payments.

    Depending on the location and size of family, I would say middle class could even start lower than $50k. The sad thing is most of our poor in the US are better off than the middle class and upper middle class of many other countries.
     
  6. Carrys

    Carrys Inquisitive

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    •In 2002 the latest year of available data, the top 5 percent of taxpayers paid more than one-half (53.8 percent) of all individual income taxes, but reported roughly one-third (30.6 percent) of income.

    •The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 33.7 percent of all individual income taxes in 2002. This group of taxpayers has paid more than 30 percent of individual income taxes since 1995. Moreover, since 1990 this group’s tax share has grown faster than their income share.

    •Taxpayers who rank in the top 50 percent of taxpayers by income pay virtually all individual income taxes. In all years since 1990, taxpayers in this group have paid over 94 percent of all individual income taxes. In 2000, 2001, and 2002, this group paid over 96 percent of the total.

    Treasury Department analysts credit President Bush's tax cuts with shifting a larger share of the individual income taxes paid to higher income taxpayers. In 2005, says the Treasury, when most of the tax cut provisions are fully in effect (e.g., lower tax rates, the $1,000 child credit, marriage penalty relief), the projected tax share for lower-income taxpayers will fall, while the tax share for higher-income taxpayers will rise.

    •The share of taxes paid by the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers will fall from 4.1 percent to 3.6 percent.

    •The share of taxes paid by the top 1 percent of taxpayers will rise from 32.3 percent to 33.7 percent.

    Source: U.S. Treasury, Office of Tax Analysis



    Yet the left still argues that we should "kill the rich". Talk about biting the hand that feeds them (literally).
     
  7. JBnTX

    JBnTX

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    The "middle class" is a mythical class of people that politicians pretend
    to care about while covertly pitting them against a more richer class that
    is portrayed as the villains.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  8. PBCounty

    PBCounty

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  9. CZ guy

    CZ guy

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    If you want to contribute something meaningful, then make a bar graph with annual income in $10k increments on the X axis plotted against % paid in taxes on the Y axis.

    Then, we'll have something meaningful to discuss...

    Forging an argument like the bullet points above that 30% of $100,000 is a greater dollar amount than 30% of $50,000 really isn't demonstrating anything other than 4th grade mathematical knowledge.
     
  10. TuxthePenguin

    TuxthePenguin

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    The people that actually pay taxes.
     
  11. Glock20 10mm

    Glock20 10mm Use Linux!

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    I hear that!:whistling:
     
  12. Glock20 10mm

    Glock20 10mm Use Linux!

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    Not sure I get your meaning, I see the Scottish national flag of St. Andrews cross... care to elaborate?
     
  13. NY Glock

    NY Glock

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    Indians and Chinese
     
  14. Carrys

    Carrys Inquisitive

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    :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


    Didn't mean to sting you so badly.:tongueout:

    And why the personal insults? It was simply truthful information. Sorry if the truth makes you angry. Just trying to educate and inform those less..........well, you know. And if you have facts to disprove the govt report, hey.....I'm all for it.

    Does trying to make your point mean that much to you?

    But if it helps you in some way, I'll take your hits.

    Noblesse Oblige, ya know?

    And if your argument is with the math in the report, get mad at the govt, they produced it. But that isn't it, is it?




    It really doesn't speak very well of your character.
     
  15. Rabbi

    Rabbi The Bombdiggity Lifetime Member

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    In general, the poor in this country live better than the "middle class" of most other nations.

    Having said that, there used to be a school of thought that if you take out the obvious exceptions (a brain surgeon who make 2 million a year....) That the "middle class" (lower, middle and upper middle) are people who work for a living. They trade time for dollars. The "upper class" is about having assets that produce income. They do not have to work. Again outside of the obvious exceptions (people who have assets that generate a modest living) This school of thought would also include, to an extent the idea of social standing as well. A broke Prince or person of high social standing is still "upper class" while the guy worth 50 million because he started all the gas stations in town...and comes from nothing is "upper middle class"

    Another school of thought places a dollar amount on it. Of course this amount is always in flux because again, we have to take into account the fact that interest rates vary...and this is a pretty damned important thing for people who live of off investments. So...

    At about 2 million dollars a year income you can pretty much do all the typical "rich guy" stuff. (Multi-million dollar home, and a few vacation homes, first class travel at pretty much will, a little private jet time, a very nice boat, exotic cars....) Very few people have that kind of income...very few, even many celebs will only have that kind of income in some years. Of course, even fewer make more and they get to do all the "rich guy" stuff as well....just more of it.

    So using the 2 million figure. If rates are around the 10% mark (HAHAHAHAHAHA *sigh* ) you either need to be that top flight Brain Surgeon or have about 20 million dollars, as rate get lower and lower, you need a lot more money. As crazy as it sounds.....Right now you need well over 100 million to realize that kind of income. Of course, it doesnt quite work that way because, for various reason, that I am not going to type out all day, but the number is still, these days, north of 40 million.

    So, the guy who had 10 million 20 years ago was living rather large, today he (assuming the same 10 million) is probably living like an average dentist.
     
  16. RonS

    RonS Millennium Member

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    I like Jerry Pournelle's explanation.

    "Aristotle said that democracy is rule by the middle class, and the middle class are those who possess the goods of fortune in moderation."
     
  17. alecat88

    alecat88

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    long sense gone , just upper and lower classes now.
     
  18. Rabbi

    Rabbi The Bombdiggity Lifetime Member

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    Really? So in America, you have about 1% (actually it is less) who are by all accounts "Rich"...we all know what "Rich" means, we might just argue over the exact amount. It isnt the guy who has a good enough fico to finance the new vette....it is the guy who owns the dealership.

    So, we have 1% or less out of the way...

    On the other end, there is "poor" ....in this country the poor have cars and cell phones. With the gross exceptions of the homeless, it is hard in most areas of this country to find "destitute" people. You simply cant get past the fact that the government assistance in this country is a better life than most people on the planet have.

    So outside of the homeless and those on government assistance....who by global standards live very well and account for less than 10% of the population...we are left with that creamy middle.

    That is 89% or so. They are not rich and they are not homeless or on government assistance.

    Now, if 89% is just a little too high for you, lets look at another data set...home ownership.

    How can you be a home owner and be "poor" (you might be broke...) but you are not poor. Poor people dont own homes....if their was ever a definition of "poor" "home owner" would not be a part of it.

    So, about 65% of Americans live in an "owned" home (we have to count spouses and kids) Now, we all know there are not that many "rich" people. That is pretty obvious. So if these 65% are not poor and most are not rich, they can not be anything other than the middle class.

    The point is, you cant beat the math. Most Americans are middle class.

    The problem is, people have started to think middle class means "doing well" or "mini-rich" which is BS. Middle class, means one thing and one things only "Not poor". The history of the world shows that. It means you have a roof over your head and food to eat. You may very well have to work yourself to the bone for it.
     
  19. Cody Jarrett

    Cody Jarrett

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    They're the biggest source of income for home foreclosures and auto repossors. My favrit book? "The Miilionaire Next Door." It opens our eyes to who the real millionaires are. They're generally people like you and I. People who wear an ordinary watch, drive a car that's a few years old, live in a modest home and stash like an Alaskan squirrel. We forsake the rich-looking life for our future.

    Remember, $400 invested in a 401K each month for 30 years at 9% interest comes to about $1 million... give or take a little. Or you can rent a BMW and be broke when you're 60. 30 years of good investing has retired my wife and I young. Keep your nose to the grindstone and DON'T keep up with the Jones'.
     
  20. nnickatnight

    nnickatnight

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    The middle class is the part of the population that is needed to work because millions on welfare depend on us!