close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

What Happens After You Shoot To Survive???

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by johns9761, Jan 2, 2010.

  1. johns9761

    johns9761 New Glock Fan!!

    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Location:
    Western PA
    I realized today that I have no idea what would occur afterwards if I ever had to shoot to defend myself. I've trained up to and including taking the shot. I've covered immediate action / fail to fire drills, various shooting positions, shooting while moving, engaging multiple targets, etc. But how do you prepare for what comes after the shot?

    I would assume that the first thing you would want to do after securing the area would be to call 911. But then what happens? Would you be arrested or would they just complete a report and let you go? Do you keep your gun or would it be confiscated? If your gun is taken when would you get it back?

    If anybody's ever had to shoot in self defense, I would like to know what you had to do after taking the shot.

    Thanks.
     
  2. vafish

    vafish

    Messages:
    16,645
    Likes Received:
    138
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2003
    Location:
    Commonwealth of Virginia
    Depends upon where you live, your local cops, local DA, ect....

    Very good chance you will be arrested, most likely your gun will be taken as evidence, you might get it back in a couple of years.

    My lawyer says If I shoot someone to call 911, report a shooting, admit to nothing, make no statement beyond identifying myself until he is there.
     

  3. jordanmills

    jordanmills

    Messages:
    267
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Location:
    Pearland, TX
    I've also been advised to call 911, report a shooting ("A person was trying to kill me, I shot him," with nothing else but where your gun is, name, and address/location). When the cops get on the scene, say the same thing, cooperate fully, and say you can't say anything without your lawyer. Don't say another word to anyone but my lawyer.

    In Texas, if it's a clear case of self defense, there seems to be a good chance they won't arrest you.

    This is what I was told, for me, in my jurisdiction. It probably doesn't apply to you, so get your own advice.
     
  4. Toyman

    Toyman

    Messages:
    2,600
    Likes Received:
    36
    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Location:
    West Michigan
    I'm not a lawyer, but it's my opinion that this would be your first mistake, If proven that the person was not trying to kill you and the justification was in question. The correct statement is "I feared for my life...". Yeah, it's a fine difference, but you know how lawyers and DA's are.
     
  5. cqb451

    cqb451

    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Location:
    Dixie & SW Asia
    I suggest you get some serious training along the line of Ayoob's LFI regimen.
    The training and classroom work will not only stress the importance of responsible carry, but more importantly the moral and legal issues of when to shoot/no shoot. Range time is only one part of the content - the classroom syllabus deals with existing mindset, presentation and above all the essential concrete rationality of why you would choose to carry a weapon.

    The multitude of local jurisdictions will jumble the sanest thinker attempting to locate common ground concerning self defense with handguns buried in the myriad of laws - or firearms in general.
    Like all passions undertaken, we wish to be masters - practice, practice, practice. Did I say practice?

    Always remember that every bullet let loose in a real-life defensive scenario will have a lawyer attached to it. Never talk to the police - inform them you will give them full cooperation after you have sought legal counsel for starters.

    I hope you will never be subjected to any life or death situation, however seek out professional training and be prepared mentally and physically. It will be wise dollars spent.

    CQB451
     
  6. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

    Messages:
    28,685
    Likes Received:
    17
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003

    I have never had to shoot someone in self defense, but I've had to deploy deadly force to bring a potentially lethal/fatal threat to cessation.

    The 1st thing I would recommend you do is go down to your local courthouse next week, and spend no less than 4 hours sitting at the back of the courtroom, to see exactly what a courtroom process in your locality looks like, and how it pans out. This alone should be dis-incentive enough for you to always strive to always de-escalate whenever possible.

    You've spent too much of your time on the gun stuff, and not enough (any) time on the logistical side of things. The odds of you doing those things you outlined are really very remotely slim. I've had to interact with the police on two (to me) memorable instances, once where I was a witness to an altercation, the other where I was a witness and called 911. In both instances I was temporarily detained (I was not free to go). In the 1st instance I had to go into the PD to make a statement - months later I was threatened with bench arrest(?) because I failed to respond to two notifications to testify in the resultant trial (I was a bachelor, and overseas on an extensive 4+ month tour). In the 2nd instance I had to repeat my story to two different police agencies (PAPD & NYPD), and then to beat cops, then to commanding officers who showed up after and wanted to hear about it all again. All this time (2nd instance) I had 2 x under 5 yr old kids in the car. (I had witnessed a guy beating down his very pregnant girl and called in it. Sucks for me he was driving the same model /year/make car as I was, same race, and wearing polo shirt and jeans as I was!)

    Are my two experiences typical? I don't know, but those, combined with sitting my *** in court for a whole day once, made me realize just how ponderous and onerous the whole criminal justice system is, and why AVOIDING any conflict is the best offense or defense I have in safeguarding my freedom. I would wish that if I ever had to shoot someone, that there is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence in my favor, that I am afforded the luxury of sleeping in my bed that night, and not face a grand jury...or a civil trail.

    Will I allow those fears to cause me pause if I have to shoot? NO. But an understanding of what happens after has allowed me - many times, to apply the cooling system and brakes when I was justified in defending myself with force (I did not say "deadly force...but normally, this is how crap unravels).


    To answer your questions, everything you've asked depends on


    • where - your locality (Texas, or NYC?) , where it happened (inside your house, guy bleeding out is wearing a mask and it's not Halloween?...or did it happen in your neighbor's house, and your neighbor is dead on the floor, or did it happen after some sort of road rage incident?)? In the parking lot of a football stadium pre/post game?
    • how - the shoot looks (ya'll been drinking, or were you fending off a violent car jacking) ,
    • who - are the witnesses (your spouse + sister, or three independent witnesses + two separate video camera recordings?),
    • what - transpired. See above for witnesses and location. These are tied together.
    • who did you shoot? Your mother? An off duty cop? A judge? A fed LEO? A vagrant? Your wife? Your brother in law? Someone who you have an order of protection out against? A drunk?
    • why - did you use deadly physical force? You can answer that street side, or thru your attorney...but that's gonna play a part in how you are treated.
    • Do you have a history with the PD? Make a lot of 911 calls? Police has some history with you presenting your gun? You played Robocop before?
    Will you be arrested? See all of the above.

    Will they take your gun. Again, see above. It also depends of it things move along to a grand jury and you are indicted? Can you be indicted? Even some cops on the job, making what appears to be good shoots have been indicted.
    Will they take a report and cut you loose? See above.

    Last, READ the papers for your locality to see how the prosecuting attorneys handle non LE and LE shootings. If for an LE shooting it's automatic time off + relief of normal police duties while an investigation ensures, chances are, you as a citizen should expect to be cooling your heels in some way shape or form.

    Have you done any conflict resolution stuff?

    'Drew
     
  7. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

    Messages:
    28,685
    Likes Received:
    17
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
  8. BK63

    BK63

    Messages:
    1,824
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    Location:
    CT
    I think if somebody crashes into your house and does not heed your warnings and you have to shoot them you are gonna be ok. I personally know somebody who had a guy high on meth crash through his front door and then through his locked bedroom door and he had no choice. He was taken in for questioning and his gun was taken for a time but he got it back. The perp did not make it but it was obvious the guy's life was in danger. On the street I would hope the sight of a gun would make them turn and run. In the end, lets hope none of us ever has to pull the trigger, but in the end as the old saying goes, tried by 12 or carried by 6. Which would you rather have?
     
  9. hhb

    hhb

    Messages:
    696
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Location:
    Ozark Foothills
    Don't clean up the scene while waiting for the police by picking up brass, etc. You could be charged with tampering with evidence. Lay the weapon on the ground, and step back while waiting. Don't be holding it in your hand when the police arrive.
     
  10. Dexters

    Dexters

    Messages:
    4,191
    Likes Received:
    7
    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Location:
    ga
    Excellent question and good responses. Now is the time to find a good lawyer and negotiate fees - carry his telephone number with you.

    Anyone know how to find one? I need to do it.
     
  11. Dexters

    Dexters

    Messages:
    4,191
    Likes Received:
    7
    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Location:
    ga
    Two thing you never want to get involved with are the courts and serious medical conditions - both will screw up your life.
     
  12. cantuckee

    cantuckee

    Messages:
    619
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Location:
    Kentucky
    well, I don't know, but I can only hope it is in 1 certain city where every officer knows me (on a positive note)
     
  13. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

    Messages:
    20,144
    Likes Received:
    4,909
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    Well lets see, you want the real version or the internet one?

    In the internet version the cops arrive and of course they already hate you because you own a gun. (especially if your gun is nicer than theirs.

    Driven by their extreme hatred of the 2nd amendment they will attempt to trick you into confessing that you murdered and innocent man. If you refuse to confess they will just frame you, planting false evidence and then high five each other once they lock you up. Then go celebrate having gotten one more law abiding thug killer off the street.

    The State attorney, who is a Democrat will attempt to prosecute you for first degree murder for having reduced the democrat voting base by one. In hopes making an example of folks like you that are a threat to the dominance of the democratic party by shooting it's constituents.

    The judge Also a Democrat will sternly instruct the jury that you are to be given a fair trial before being found guilty and sentenced to life in prison.


    :supergrin:
     
  14. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

    Messages:
    28,685
    Likes Received:
    17
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    :headscratch: Funny you should mention the "NYC" version so accurately. Did you ever serve under Morgenthau? He just retired after 35 years as DA. :)

    We have "gun courts" in NYC to do much of what you've outlined in your post - except the State Atty hardly ever gets involved in this stuff unless two of the networks have cameras on stand by.



    :tongueout::rofl:
     
  15. akapennypincher

    akapennypincher Glock-O-Holic

    Messages:
    2,541
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2001
    Location:
    Sonora Desert Arizona USA
    Great Post, and Now Pray you never have to use Deadly Force...
     
  16. David Armstrong

    David Armstrong

    Messages:
    8,723
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2002
    Location:
    Lake Charles, LA
    1. Take LFI-1 or something similar.
    2. Find a good criminal attorney and arrange for 1 hour of his time. Listen carefully, then do what he has suggested.
    3. Repeat 1 and 2 every 5 years or as needed, whichever comes first.
     
  17. Gunnut 45/454

    Gunnut 45/454

    Messages:
    12,129
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Real simple call 911, then call your Lawyer when the police get there ID yourself as the victim(selfdefense) then shut-up let them know you will make a full statement when your lawyer shows up!:supergrin:
     
  18. Misty02

    Misty02

    Messages:
    7,119
    Likes Received:
    2,206
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Location:
    Florida
    You need to speak with lawyers and police officers in your area, what is true for me may not be true for you. We have Castle Doctrine in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Florida</st1:place></st1:State> thus the greatest concern would be for self-defense situations outside the home. Read as much as you possibly can; case law, victim statements, transcripts, news stories, this forum, etc. Knowledge is about the one thing we can always stand to have more of.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Even in the same area different circumstances, different police officers, different responding agencies can yield completely different results.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    In my opinion your training should also include dealing with the aftermath. I have done some research and have talked with LEOs to get an idea of what the possible best and worst case scenarios could be. Not that it would be exactly as you have been told by anyone but at least it will not catch you by surprise if you were unfortunate enough to ever find yourself in a similar situation.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    The other part, should the shooting result in someone loosing their life, would be dealing with the knowledge you’ve taken a life. I don’t know how one prepares emotionally and mentally to handle something like that beyond understanding it’s a possibility.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    As it has been explained to me, there is a possibility I will be arrested and taken in for questioning until everything is cleared. There is a possibility I can be tried in a court of law and sentenced. I can expect for my gun to be taken as evidence and not returned until the investigation is over. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    I have been told to call 911 immediately and request medical attention if I shot anyone. Another very important thing I must remember and be extremely conscious of, follow the instructions of the officer arriving at the scene. No one has recommended I dropped the weapon before help arrives but unanimously I’ve been told to drop it the second I see officers arrive. That is not a time you want to be shaking so badly you can’t fully comprehend what you’re being instructed to do.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Interaction with the police after I take an active part in a shooting is an area where I fear I’ll likely fail and have to put the most thought and preparation toward. It is my desire to fully cooperate and at the same time not say something that would be damaging. If I do things right I will be able to articulate that I fired because I was in fear for my life, indicate if there were other people so they can work in apprehending them quickly and identify conditions/weapons and the like that would assist in properly documenting the crime scene. An example being if we ran from where it all started and the other person dropped something 50 or 100 yards from where we stood now. After that, indicate I’m shaken up and would rather continue after I’ve had some time to pull myself together and obtained legal counsel.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    I’ve read several cases where the person thought they shot twice and it turned out they actually shot 7 times (making up the numbers since I don’t recall the exact ones from the story). I even read a case where they guy wrote about his story months after and he honestly can’t remember shooting. It was obvious he did, his family was at the house when it happened but he can’t remember those seconds when he was actually shooting back. Reading these and other cases has taught me that the details victims recollect at those traumatic moments may not be necessarily correct. Many police officers are trained to deal with the trauma and stress faced by victims and how that could affect their recollection. However, if you are arrested and have to stand trial your statement will likely be read to a jury that may or may not have been informed that victim’s recollection is some times impaired.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Just thinking about it is enough for me to make sure I avoid a situation where I would need to use my gun. It is only when you put in the balance the life of one of my family members or even my own that I find the risk acceptable.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    There is little need to prepare for the best case scenario, those you will just accept with a sigh of relief.<o:p></o:p>

    .
     
  19. fredj338

    fredj338

    Messages:
    25,759
    Likes Received:
    4,086
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    so.cal.
    It will vary depending on the exact circumstances & the jurisdiction. I would expect after you or someone calls 911:
    You will be detained or arrested. Your weapon will be taken as evidence. Whether you are prosecuted will be determined by the jurisdiction & the mind set of the prosecutor. If the BG lives or dies, good or bad shooting, you will likely be sued by the BG or his surviving family. Yes having/carrying a gun for SD/HD is serious stuff & all plays into your mindset. If you truly needed to shoot to save/protect your life, you'll be fine, but still expect to be sued by someone.
     
  20. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

    Messages:
    28,685
    Likes Received:
    17
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003

    I don't disagree with what you have said, and between my NRA Rifleman magazine, the news, and online forums, I've tried to keep track of self defense shoots, and the subsequent lawsuits that follow.

    If you were to estimate (and you can add or ignore those states that do not allow for civil suits in the event there is a no-bill by the grand jury, or the prosecuting atty finds no basis for arrest)...what % of self defense shoots would you guess have a resultant civil lawsuit after the fact, by the person who was shot, or their estate?

    'Drew
    :cool: