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What gives us the right????

Discussion in 'Firefighter/EMS Talk' started by Jaron, Aug 22, 2006.

  1. Jaron

    Jaron

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    I'm trying to help out a friend do a little research. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    What gives us as EMTs and Paramedics the right to transport someone against there wishes? For example when they are intoxicated or any other AMS. Is it Federal, State, County.... After doing some research on my own I am not able to find any clear documentation other than company policy that allows us to do this.

    Thanks again for any help.
     
  2. Rusty Guns

    Rusty Guns

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    Our Dept policy was , and came from Chief Medical Officer.
    That we could not transport if person refused service.
    If person was Out we had implied consent.
    I have waited for a few to pass out so I could load them.
    Watched a brother Pop his brother with a fist so he would be out so we could transport him.
    Stranger things have happened.
     

  3. DTD2

    DTD2 vote or die

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    The readers digest version goes...

    INFORMED CONSENT- You are alert, compitent, not a danger to yourself or others. You understand the need for treatment and possible outcome of not being treated.

    IMPLIED CONSENT- Your are unconsious or otherwise unable to make an informed decision It is assumed that a reasonable person would seek treatment. Or you are a minor and cannot, but law, make informed decision to consent to or refuse treatment.

    EMERGENCY DETENTION- You are intoxicated or otherwise under the influence of a mind altering substance and need medical attention. (ie needing stitches, x-rays etc). You are placed under Emergency Detention till the time arises that you can make informed decisions.

    PROTECTIVE CUSTODY- You wish to harm yourself and/or others (by acts or ommissions), are drug or alcohol dependant or otherwise unable to care for yourself (elderly persons, mentally handicapped living alone unsafely etc). Pending a psychiatric evaluation you may be held until the psych testifies in court as to you mental capacity.

    This is outlined in state statutes, ems protocols and department policy.

    For Wisconsin see

    HERE

    For the scenario you provided, ponder this.

    You are out on the town with your buddies drinking. You get into a fight. Get knocked out after hitting your head on the pavement. A bystander calls 911. Ambulance shows up. You are now awake and refusing treatment.

    By law the EMS crew provides treatment per statutes and protocol/procedure. You go to the hospital and are diagnosed with a brain bleed. You are taken to surgery and live.

    The other way around (if this practice did not exist) you refuse treatment, despite these medically trained professional pleading with you to go to the hospital. In your drunked, altered state you continue to refuse. You stagger home, go to sleap and never wake up.

    Your family files a civil suit citing negligence on the EMS providers part.

    FYI, in my system if you are drunk but do not need treatment, I call the Doc, ok it with them and turn you over to the police. Providing you are not a canidate for protective custody or emergency detention.
     
  4. akulahawk

    akulahawk

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    That's pretty much how I handle things out here in California. For "Implied Consent", I use a simple test: knowledge of person(self), place, time (close is ok), recent events, followed by a clear plan of self care.

    I've never had someone that was mostly conscious refuse care when I tell them this: "Answer these questions correctly, and I'll leave you alone. (They like this part) If you fail one, you ride with me. OK?" (Sounds reasonable, fits with desires for first part, they go with it.) Then I ask the questions, when they fail, they go along with the program because I also provide them the correct answers at the end... Those that are too far gone just don't even get that far.

    Then there was this time I had a guy with known violent schizophrenia volunteer for restraints... He was, well, unique.
     
  5. DTD2

    DTD2 vote or die

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    My favorite to finish up would be "Is Mickey Mouse a cat or a dog?"

    :supergrin:

    jk of course;)