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Discussion in 'Valuable Info' started by MilitantBEEMER, Jun 5, 2009.
Polish just polish
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I like the suggestion of using a 3 way nail polish / file. I'll have to try that. I have handled these in the past and it seems to me they might be more akin to using a stone than simply polishing... but i"m no expert.
I have used my Dremel tool, the felt buffing wheel, and Flitz compound on several of my Glocks with only positive effects.
I have to wonder if some of the Dremel hack jobs being referenced involved the grinding wheel. I feel like you'd really have to work hard to screw it up with the soft wheel & polishing compound.
A waste of time unless your a noob and want to detail strip and clean your Glook for the first time.
I did the Fitz and cotton swab job on a couple of Glocks.
Ended up getting them nice and clean and shiny with only a very slight reduction in the pull weight of the trigger but did seem to be a whisper smoother.
I noticed the diference more doing the polishing to my 1911 more than my Glock
I don't know if it was mentioned, but using a dremel with cloth wheel and auto wax with light pressure on low speed does a fine job quickly and will not remove any material.
Should you do a .25 trigger job?
1. NO - if you don't understand
2. NO - if you don't know what each and every part does
3. NO - if you believe everything written
4. NO - if you think you will screw it up
5. NO - if you believe a cotton swab is better and as fast as using a dremel
6. NO - if your buddy says so & you believe him
7. NO - if you believe the way it is new is best
8. NO - if you think I am wrong
9. YES - if you
All of my Glocks have been improved working on the triggers
I can honestly say that using a dremel on low speed with a felt polishing wheel and Flitz polish, you would have to be a real idiot to remove material. That being said, the only difference I felt polishing the connector, trigger bar, safety plunger, and firing pin lug was that the trigger take up was considerably smoother however the break of the trigger still felt the same to me. Granted, I could be wrong as I did not measure trigger pull weight with a scale.
I never bothered to do this on any Glock beyond my G34 as all it is really doing is accelerating the wear process that will happen naturally of the course of the pistols life and although it was quick and easy, it didn't seem that the gain was worth it. I am continuing to work on trigger jobs on my other Glocks one round at a time.
The 25 cent trigger job is possibly the most widely misunderstood thing we talk about on GT IMO. It's also the most commonly screwed up thing that most people don't do right.
The real idea of it is this:
Glock trigger bars are made by stamping dies, and all stamping dies leave rough side edges on all parts that are made that way. This includes the trigger sear on a Glock trigger bar. On most nice guns the trigger sear is a nicely machined, smooth surface, because it's a totally machined part, but on a stock Glock, it's as rough as a corn cob since it was die stamped. The purpose of the 25 cent trigger job is to replace that rough die stamped surface with a FLAT smooth surface, to improve the smoothness of the trigger pull. And if done correctly, it certainly does improve the feel of a Glock trigger, but it only works right if you end up with that surface looking FLAT, WITH THE SHARP EDGES STILL SHARP, as they originally were from the factory, and as they have to be, to keep the proper sear engagement with the lug on the striker.
But that's where the popular misunderstanding is.
To put that sort of finish on the trigger sear, you must remove a tiny bit of the rough stamped edge until it looks like a flat machined surface under a magnifying glass, (it does not need to shine) and this is best done with stones or a very fine file, or if you have a machine shop you can put the trigger bar in a milling machine and remove about .002/.005" of an inch and you'd have it done as perfectly as any factory could have done it. The operation of the gun is not affected by removing such a small amount of material because all it does is change the exact position of the trigger by about .005" and your finger will never feel the difference, and it's also well within the original manufacturing tolerances anyway, so it's silly to be afraid of removing such a small amount of metal from that particular surface. It just doesn't hurt a thing
Where people really screw up by thinking that the 25 cent trigger job can be done by simply polishing it with a Dremel and a buffing wheel, and that's just not true at all. A buffing wheel DOES NOT accomplish this and in fact gives you an entirely different result that is not advisable at all. A rough surface that's been buffed until it shines IS NOT the same thing as a surface that's been machined flat & smooth, and therefore needs no "shine" because of it's flatness & smoothness, yet the buffing wheel crowd doesn't seem to understand that. Buffing wheels round off all the edges that are supposed to stay sharp if your sear engagement is to remain correct and keep the gun operating safely.
If you do the job correctly, and with the right tools, you end up with a FLAT surface that still has sharp corners and it does not need to be even the slightest bit shiney at all. It's the overall flatness and smoothness which improves trigger pull while keeping the gun safe, NOT THE SHINE!!! If Glock were to machine that one surface in a milling machine at the factory instead of leaving it rough from the stamping die, it would not be shinny, and shining it with a buffing wheel would bring no further improvement at all. The surface you can achieve with stones & files (or the side of an end mill) is more than smooth & shiney enough!!
So there's a popular misunderstanding right there. In their fear of "removing too much metal", people resort to buffing wheels which do not remove metal from the right place. Instead of improving the flatness & squareness of the trigger sear, they only round off the corners that need to be sharp. So a Dremel actually DOES remove too much metal, and FROM EXACTLY THE WRONG PLACES, while not removing any of the real surface roughness at all!!!
I'm sorry people are going to feel insulted, but in most cases, (most, not all) Dremels & buffing wheels are for non-engineers & non-gunsmiths who know nothing about how to do precision work on tiny metal parts. At best, the buffing wheel route does hardly any good compared to doing the job right. At worst, those buffed-shiney & rounded-off edges can affect the safety of the gun by making the sear slip off the striker lug too easily when the trigger isn't pulled. In the worst cases, this can cause double taps with one trigger pull, or even full auto operation for as long as the trigger is held back far enough to hold the safety plunger in the upward position.
To do the job right requires much more skill time & effort than going at it with a Dremel. That's why I call my version the 25 dollar trigger job. Unless you're just flubbing it up with a Dremel, it takes a lot more than 25 cents worth of a man's time & skill. The Dremel version should be called the 2 cent trigger job.
Unless you think you have the skills to do it as I've described, I strongly suggest people leave it in stock (pronounce that SAFE) condition rather than round off everything sharp with a Dremel. That's just a dead wrong thing to do to the trigger sear on ANY gun.
Dremel fans, send hate mail now......
Probably not. A buffing wheel is all it takes to screw things up horribly.....
Actually because all you have to do is round off sharp corners to cause problems, a buffing wheel is in fact one of the easiest tools in the world with which to totally ruin a trigger bar and make the gun unsafe. The softness of buffing wheels is precisely what prevents you from being able to keep the sharp corners sharp.
I admit Dremels have their uses, even on guns, but this particular surface on this particular part is NOT a job for a Dremel.
Correct. You are leaning in the right direction here, but not far enough.
It's also that the sharp corners above and below that right-angled surface MUST stay sharp, and this is impossible to do with buffing wheels. Buffing always rounds them off to some extent, even if you must use magnification to see it.
Sorry, but you're 100 percent wrong and Butch was 100 percent right. You seem to have missed his earlier point about things getting too rounded off. If you didn't see rounded off corners after using a buffing wheel, then your eyes are bad and you should look again with magnification.
It's impossible to keep the corners sharp with a buffing wheel simply because they are SOFT and roll over the edges of anything you buff with them.
I have to add a correction in something I said above:
"The operation of the gun is not affected by removing such a small amount of material because all it does is change the exact position of the trigger by about .005" and your finger will never feel the difference"
That's incorrect. I don't know what I was thinking at the time. The mechanism doesn't work that way, and the exact position of the trigger isn't changed by removing a little steel on the back end of the trigger bar. It's the exact amount of pre-load on the striker spring that's altered because it gets reduced by the .003" or what ever amount you took off. For a spring that gets way over a 1/2" of pre-load before it's released, that's nothing to care about.
I une 3/4" felt buffs to polish the Glock's parts. with. It keeps everything flat and square, I use the sides of the wheel, not the front This gives a flat surface rather than rounded.
I also found milling marks and a burr on the barrel feed ramp. A slight pass with a course rubberised wheel makes short work of smoothing this out.
For most glocks, all the fluff and buffs I seen deal with most glock models. An exception is the new G42. Some of the parts and connections are different. Due to my lack of experience, can anyone tell me how to F & B a Glock G42? My goal is to improve the trigger pull on my 42. As always, TIA for any help.
The trigger on my G21 Gen2 started getting harder to pull and seemed sticky so I did the .25 cent trigger job on it and it worked better than it did from the factory. I am not sure I would do this on the Gen4's because they have a coating on them that is supposed to make them smoother and the factory can tell if it is removed (of course the Gen 4 trigger seems to have a slightly harder trigger pull btw). Just my 2 cents worth. In the end you own it and do what you will.
I get why you do not want to *even minimally* change anything about the cruciform face (sear?)-striker (lug?) engagement but after a reasonable break-in (200 rounds? more? less?) what about literally polishing (just to a mirror finish) the contact faces of the connector and trigger bar as well as the guide rails and the slide grooves with a cone shaped Dremel felt (cotton?) polishing tool at low rpm and some low abrasive polish such as or Blue Metal Polish or ... ? Ditto the contact surfaces of the safety and the disengaging bump on the trigger bar?
I don't yet own a Glock but the ability to do maintenance such as this and changing springs, as Glock recommends, on my own, is one of the reasons I'm so interested in Glock.
Question 2: Is there a definitive Glock recommendation re: when to replace springs on G30sf?
Question: Is the G30sf a Gen3 with a few Gen4 improvements 'slipstreamed'? I haven't been able to confirm yet whether it has the dual recoil spring arrangement.
Nice additional information
you could always shoot thousands of rounds through it and let the parts "machine" themselves smooth