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What do you do in these Carrying situations?

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by oISHUTupNrocKIo, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. oISHUTupNrocKIo

    oISHUTupNrocKIo Glock Lover

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    Say, I'm going up the mountains fishing with my CCW because there are Black Bear near by. You bring your Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan, but you can't fit it IWB, so you wear it on hip in a cross-draw. It's not fully concealed. Is that okay?

    You have your CCW, and your carrying your firearm concealed. Theres a situation were you have to fight a guy; its not "life" threatening, hes not using lethal force. You don't want to fight because it'll look bad on you when you have a weapon IWB. What do you do?

    Your sitting in a resturant being served, your firearm pokes out of your clothing abit, the waitress sees it, and screams. Police are called... Do what?

    Just a few things I've always thought about and never got full or good answer from my buddies. Please feel free to post your questions about CCW also. Thanks.
     
  2. Myself

    Myself

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    You are in PA. Open carry is legal in PA. You are fine.

    When you are carring a firearm avoid situations involving confrontation. You do not have to fight unless the other person institutes it. Proportional responces are important.

    Again you are not doing anything against the law in PA. If they do not like your firearm they may ask you to leave. If you fail to comply you may be charged with trespass. Otherwise wait for the police and have another cup of coffee.
     

  3. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    Depends where you are. I hunt or fish in Kentucky, so I can wear it that way on Main Street with no permit required. California is probably a little different.

    Why does it "look bad"?

    I've eaten in many restaurants with my firearm in plain sight and nobody ever screamed. In Kentucky, the police would not come in some areas, since that wouldn't be a report of a crime. In other areas they might come and ask for my CCW permit, just to appease the nutty waitress, then they'd apologize for answewring the stupid call and leave. I wouldn't do anything except learn to conceal my pistol better.
     
  4. Hendricks433

    Hendricks433

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    1. As others have said, its legal to Open Carry in areas, not a problem.

    2. Fighting with a gun on you doesnt look bad, it shows you have control to not draw your weapon. Be very careful though because if you are attacked and fight, if he finds the weapon on you and takes it, it could be ugly. Its best to avoid physical confrontation at all costs. I think its pretty hard to actually get in a "fight". If someone is in your personal space threatening you need to diffuse the situation.

    3. Its not illegal to print or for your gun to be seen. It accidentally being seen by someone is not brandishing or illegal. Check your laws obviously, ymmw according to your laws.
     
  5. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    All answers to these kinds of questions are very state specific.

    Once upon a time, my wife and I were hiking in a state forest and came across some guys shooting thier AKs at a target they put up. They weren't suspicious at all, just normal guys from a suburb, out doing some target shooting.

    We said, mind if we join you? They were surprised when she pulled her pistol out and did some target shooting. After a while, we left. We concealed up again. On the trail out, we passed a NYS trooper walking in. He didn't pay any attention to us at all (I think you could still hear them target shooting).

    I don't know what happened to them, but I can guarentee you the trooper would have paid us a lot more attention if we were openly carrying. It's a gray area in NYS law as to whether carry has to be concealed or not. And I'm not sure if the target shooting was strictly legal or not. I know hunting is allowed in that state forest.

    My guess is, some other hikers, less gun friendly, called the cops about those guys shooting. I didn't notice anyone walk by when we were there. The setup was safe, into a ravine. And the target shooting all just seemed so normal, as that's what people did back in the olden days. Nowadays, I'd be more cautious and wouldn't target shoot in that situation. Especially not since I saw the state trooper walking back there that time :rofl:
     
  6. oISHUTupNrocKIo

    oISHUTupNrocKIo Glock Lover

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    I was just asking these questions because they got me thinking, because when I go up the mountain this summer, I want .454 Casull on my hip because of the the Black Bear sitings and attacks... there has been close to 4 attacks in the last 4 months... alot for that area, one lady unfortunatly being mauled to death by one. My uncle has a house deep in the Pocono Mountains, where I've seen 2 black bear the last 4 times I've been up there and I'll be up there ALOT in the summer for some get away and fishing. So I definitely want to be carrying my Ruger.

    On the note of a fight... I've been jumped about 5 times(if you don't know what that is, its when your walking alone a night and about 4-5 guys attack you and beat the **** out of you) and luckily getting away 4 times out of 5. I was just wondering if a had to fight, and didn't use my CCW do to no lethal force, I thought it would look bad because fighting is felony and having a gun on you doesn't make it look any better.

    Another question... What if your about to be jumped by 3-4 guys, but they have no weapons... do you still draw your sidearm?
     
  7. farley45

    farley45

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    If you are expecting big trouble you should bring a rifle to...

    As for the fighting, you are able to justifiably defend yourself in this country. If a bunch of guys jump you, you are justified in fighting back.

    If 3-4 guys are going to jump me I will draw my firearm, even if they are unarmed. I would fear that they would kill me.
     
  8. oISHUTupNrocKIo

    oISHUTupNrocKIo Glock Lover

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    Thats what I was thinking on the fighting note. And as for carrying a rifle while fishing up the mountains... I think it would be too bulky and uncomfortable... I know its lives I'm protecting here, but carrying a rifle would draw attention and especially without a hunting license. Open carry is allowed in PA, even without a LTCF except in Class (1) county such as Philadelphia.

    I also don't have a rifle, but I don't have a Mossberg 500 Tactical 12ga shotgun... would you recommend that?
     
  9. farley45

    farley45

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    Depending on where you are fishing, but considering there are bear attacks to worry about, I would carry a rifle but I would be mindful and contact your game and parks commission to ensure that no laws were being broken.

    I would get something in a lever action most likely to carry with me. If you are just fishing I would carry it to where I am and keep it near. Much the same as concealed carry, sometimes it is a burden to carry a firearm, but it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. But, if you are worried about bear attacks a handgun on your hip is a great and a rifle in your hands is even better.

    ETA: Carrying your Mossberg is fine, but put slugs in it. I would still prefer a rifle myself. But, if you are worried about drawing attention, a lever action will scare folks a lot less than a "tactical" looking firearm.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2010
  10. eclipse13

    eclipse13

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    Being jumped by multiple people would more than likely mean that you couldjustify drawing your gun due to Disparity of Force.
     
  11. Roering

    Roering Sorting nuts

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    How about drawing your weapon and keeping it pointed at the ground. I think that would give attackers second thoughts.
     
  12. oISHUTupNrocKIo

    oISHUTupNrocKIo Glock Lover

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    I thought carrying a Ruger Super Redhawk would be plenty and carrying an extra speed loader. .454 Casull has the velocity and engery like that of a rifle in a small package, thats what I love about it. Stainless steel brush satin ... its a beautiful piece.
     
  13. jdavionic

    jdavionic NRA Member

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    It depends on your state. In my state (GA), I have a GA Firearms Permit. It permits you to carry (under certain restrictions - e.g., no public gatherings) in either open or conceal carry. What you've cited is a failed attempt to properly conceal. So, no...it's not okay. I would just open carry instead.

    Not sure I understand your logic here. The reason to avoid a confrontation is because you are carrying...not because it "looks bad". It's because you can cause a non-life threatening situation to become life threatening when you could have avoided the confrontation altogether. Not a smart decision. What if your gun falls out of the holster or he grabs it?

    You should be more careful, first off. But if it happens, you cover it back up, apologize to the waitress and offer to show her your permit to help ease her concerns, and then wait for the police and hope all goes well. What are you going to do at that point? Pay your bill & run away? You won't get far. At this point, it's about remaining calm and damage control.
     
  14. oISHUTupNrocKIo

    oISHUTupNrocKIo Glock Lover

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    ...thats why these are questions. Your not talking to a 5 year old so you don't have to talk down to me because I'm asking questions to know what to do in these situations. And for the first question, the law of PA LTCF, it is legal to open carry, even more so with a LTCF. The only time I wouldn't fully conceal a firearm is in fishing/hunting environments. And I should be careful first off? ...**** happens, you may conceal it the best you can, but when you sit, the firearm wither prints your clothing, or slips out be accident. And why would I run if its legal to carry a firearm? I appreciate the input, but don't act like a know it all, people are trying to learn from the GT community the best they can, the last thing they need is someone arrogant. Just had to put it out there.
     
  15. Warp

    Warp ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    The answer is that you don't want to fight because getting into "fights" is stupid, illegal and dangerous.

    Now if you are assaulted and your attempts to avoid and/or de escalate fail and you defend yourself with non lethal force the main concern regarding the IWB weapon is making sure nobody can get it other than yourself.
     
  16. DukeNukem

    DukeNukem

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    You want to further muddy the waters, how about this: In ohio, if you handgun hunt, if your jacket covers the butt of the gun, it's concealed, but if they can see the gun it's brandishing, now what? I really don't worry about and and don't have a ccw and have never had a problem. In va I was always told you could cover to protect from weather but who knows. At any rate, in a fight, if you have a gun, there's already one in the situation and if any of them try to grab it, that's deadly force. That's the reason for a backup or a knife, but you better know how to employ it as a deadly weapon. Since most of us don't have that knowledge, and you're armed, you could probably articulate a reason for drawing. You just don't want to be the aggressor. In the woods, my own property or private property, I do what I want.
     
  17. jdavionic

    jdavionic NRA Member

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    Okay, great. I don't know the laws for PA which is why I specifically said
    my response was aimed at my knowledge of the laws in GA. I didn't want to misinform or mislead you.


    Yes, accidents happen. The best way to prevent them is to be careful. I've had it happen, as I suspect anyone else here who frequently carries has experienced this too. When it happens, I say the same thing to myself - 'crap, I need to be more careful.' You seem to have a real chip on shoulder which is further shown below.

    First off, show me where I said "run". If you want to discuss the issue, fine. Don't lie to form an argument against something that was not stated.

    What I said is that you should 'avoid a confrontation when armed', which was subsequently echoed by Warp's reply. That's quite a bit different than you're assertion. There are many ways to avoid a confrontation that don't involve 'running away'. If you have the attitude where you want to engage anyone that confronts you for any reason, then I would highly recommend that you get a good lawyer. And to be honest, you shouldn't be carrying with that attitude.


    You post a series of questions and solicit input. In areas where your questions raised concerns IMHO, I addressed them. The issue here is not your perception of "arrogance". The issue is that you don't like it when someone points out flaws in your reasoning. If you're that sensitive, I think your time here will prove to be very frustrating.
     
  18. farley45

    farley45

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    I didn't see any arrogance in the post.

    As for running, that is something that I neglected to address in my post. You should abosolutely try to run first. Put your pride aside and try to avoid potentially bad situations the best you can. I think that when you carry a firearm and have the ability to use lethal force you have an obligation to try to de-escalate situations or avoid situations all together that could end in using lethal force. If you can safely get the heck out of there, then do so and don't just rely on the firearm as an end all solution.

    Situational awareness, and knowing a way out of where ever you are will always come in handy. If you feel like something bad may happen, or some guys look like they are up to no good, then try to remove yourself from the situation, or avoid those guys the best you can.

    My earlier post about the fights was aimed at what to do if all else fails.
     
  19. bandmasterjf

    bandmasterjf

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    Situation 1. Avoid the fight. If a guy in my shape, arthritis pretty much all over, is in a real fight he's in real danger.

    Situation 2. Under react. I've been "made" once. I bent over and my shirt came up. A kid and mother saw my g19 and the kid said something about it to the mom. I simply said. "It's ok, I've got a license. I'm the good guy". Mom smiled and told the kid it was ok. Over reacting only makes situations worse.
     
  20. TACC GLOCK

    TACC GLOCK SEMPER FIDELIS

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    If I am in fear for my life, and I am drawing my weapon, I am pointing at the threat not the ground.