[lonestarlizard]

You worry about being a "killer" all you want, the people who know, know it's about stopping the threat as quickly as possible.

And of course by "the HP fans" you mean to say "every professional organization in the country" lol

I don't 'worry' about being a "killer" now or ever. Not sure what point you are trying to make. My point, and that of the poster I replied to, is that many thousands more people have been killed with FMJ ammo than HP ammo. And yes, many of the professional organizations have jumped on the bandwagon just like the FBI jumped on the .40 wagon only to abandon it and go back to 9mm. Ideas and actual data change minds. This FMJ/HP dead horse is really dead.

 

[Warp]

Not sure what point you are trying to make.

It's not about killing.

A weapon or tool could have a 100% "kill rate" and still be a sub par choice for self defense.

My point, and that of the poster I replied to, is that many thousands more people have been killed with FMJ ammo than HP ammo.

And many (probably millions) more have been killed with edged weapons (swords, knives, scythes, axes, etc). So what?

And yes, many of the professional organizations have jumped on the bandwagon

JHP is a bandwagon? lol, now I've heard it all

 

[Gray Dood]

.45 acp.

I think it's the reason every Colt 1911 I've ever owned has ran 100% out of the box. It's what it was designed to work with, and it does. And, as noted, it produces almost half inch holes with a 63% one shot stop rate.

Yes, I've run tuned 1911s and even factory ones that ran fine with JHPs, and yes JHPs are better defensive rounds. But ball 230 grain works always, and I would, and do, trust it.

As an aside, I EDC a G19 with Gold Dot 124 grain JHP.

 

[lonestarlizard]

It's not about killing.

A weapon or tool could have a 100% "kill rate" and still be a sub par choice for self defense.



And many (probably millions) more have been killed with edged weapons (swords, knives, scythes, axes, etc). So what?



JHP is a bandwagon? lol, now I've heard it all

So what means that more people have been killed with FMJ bullets and you bring up edged weapons, ignoring the HP-FMJ thread point. Troll all you want, I won't be responding.

 

[Warp]

So what means that more people have been killed with FMJ bullets and you bring up edged weapons, ignoring the HP-FMJ thread point. Troll all you want, I won't be responding.

lol, I'm not ignoring anything. IF more people have been killed by FMJ, it's because FMJ has been used more historically. Just like more people have been killed with edged weapons because they have been used more historically. Ignore reality all you want, doesn't change anything.

Again, it's not about killing. It's about stopping the threat as quickly as possible. Which type of bullet has been used more to kill more people is completely irrelevant to which one is better at consistently stopping a threat as quickly as possible.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

lol, I'm not ignoring anything. IF more people have been killed by FMJ, it's because FMJ has been used more historically. Just like more people have been killed with edged weapons because they have been used more historically. Ignore reality all you want, doesn't change anything.

Again, it's not about killing. It's about stopping the threat as quickly as possible. Which type of bullet has been used more to kill more people is completely irrelevant to which one is better at consistently stopping a threat as quickly as possible.

Killing is stopping.

 

['Ol Grandad]

.45acp is the only round that I'd feel safe with (230grn)FMJ bullets for SD. Of course any gun with FMJ bullets in it is better than no gun.

And brain pan hits trump all caliber arguments.

 

[Warp]

Killing is stopping.

No, it isn't.

There is no timeframe stipulated there (and you can stop without killing as well)

You are failing to comprehend the core concept.

You are also failing to uphold your promise to stop posting/responding.

 

[captcurly]

45ACP for pistols and 45Colt for revolvers.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

No, it isn't.

There is no timeframe stipulated there (and you can stop without killing as well)

You are failing to comprehend the core concept.

You are also failing to uphold your promise to stop posting/responding.

Uh... What?

 

[Warp]

Uh... What?

Too much real life for you? I guess you've never heard of somebody getting shot, continuing voluntary action for several minutes if not longer, but ultimately dying from the wound.

You should probably stop speaking as though you are informed on the topic.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

Too much real life for you? I guess you've never heard of somebody getting shot, continuing voluntary action for several minutes if not longer, but ultimately dying from the wound.

You should probably stop speaking as though you are informed on the topic.

Maybe you were too busy yammering to notice I never said I was going to stop posting.

Maybe you were too busy thinking you've put rounds down range and have a viable opinion.

Either way what you espouse is opinion.

 

[Warp]

Maybe you were too busy yammering to notice I never said I was going to stop posting.

Maybe you were too busy thinking you've put rounds down range and have a viable opinion.

Either way what you espouse is opinion.

My mistake, that was somebody else that said that.

Tell me more about how it's impossible to stop somebody without killing them, and how anytime somebody dies from their wounds, it means their voluntary actions were immediately stopped. I'm all ears.

 

[G19 DB]

I have a deadly accurate vintage S&W .38 Spl that is scary on target with the right loads, but I'm not entirely convinced that FMJ in 38 Spl is the best load for self-defense

No, but full wadcutters in 38 special have been proven as good self defense load.

edit: on second thought, I do have some FMJ WC bullets.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

Mostly you're just being an ass.

I'm cool with that too. Takes one to know one and all.

 

[Warp]

Yeah, for liability reason if nothing more.

Shoot... somewhere in the neighborhood of 85% of those shot with handguns survive. Pistols are NOT dumping much more than a solid punch worth of energy into a target even if it does manage to expand and stop.

It's just not the game changer so many people feel it is.

Please quote where I said or implied anything whatsoever about dumping energy.

Permanent crush cavity would be a good term to use here. Penetration depth and expansion/diameter, the measures of a handgun round.

 

[pblanc]

If I were limited to FMJ handgun ammunition I would use .45 ACP. It makes the largest hole out of the handguns I own, has more than enough penetration, and I shoot it well. The only handgun calibers for which I would use non-expanding ammunition by choice would be 22 LR and 380 Auto.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

Please quote where I said or implied anything whatsoever about dumping energy.

Permanent crush cavity would be a good term to use here. Penetration depth and expansion/diameter, the measures of a handgun round.

I wasn't quoting you. I was offering up information.

You just do you. No sense in trying to convince people you are right because statistically there is no right answer and it just doesn't matter much beyond shot placement.

You may luck out and get expansion, you might not. You might need expansion, you might not.

One thing you DO need is a reliable feed and fire. Beyond that? Just four rules and the likelihood you will never need to fire your weapon in defense.