What Affects Striker Force?

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by Worn, May 15, 2018.

  1. Worn

    Worn Constitutional Conservative

    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    1,202
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Location:
    Northern Arizona
    Aside from the striker spring, what can affect the force with which a striker strikes a primer?

    An hour ago, I believed that only the striker spring mattered. Now I think otherwise.

    I have a G19.2 with a Gen 3 slide built with all Glock parts, except for the barrel. It's been giving lots of light strikes lately. I pulled the striker to see if the striker channel is clear. It is.

    Thinking that the striker spring might be old and weak, I replaced it with a new Wolff standard weight spring. No help. So I replaced it again with a heavier Wolff striker spring. That reduced the number of light strikes but did not eliminate them.

    Out of curiosity, I tried the problem slide on a different frame - a gen 3. No light strikes. Hmmm...

    Then I took the slide from the G19.3 and put it on the problem gen 2 Glock frame and, whereas it had been flawless on the gen 3 frame, on the gen 2 frame I had two light strikes on the first magazine.

    It seems like something in the gen 2 frame (trigger group?) must be somehow diminishing the striker's force, whatever slide is being used.

    Anyone know what is going on with the gen 2 frame?

    Barring that, anyone care to hazard a guess as to what is going on with the gen 2 frame?

    It just occurred to me that headspace may be a factor. I'm going to try different barrels in the problem slide the next time I go to the range.
     
  2. ToddKS

    ToddKS

    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    28
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2015
    My first thought based on what you are describing is that something is worn or damaged in the cruciform area of the trigger bar. I would replace the trigger assembly and see if that solves the issue.

    My thought process is that the trigger bar is not pulling the striker all the way back before it is getting released.
     

  3. G33

    G33 Frisky! CLM Millennium Member

    Messages:
    30,678
    Likes Received:
    6,914
    Joined:
    May 29, 1999
    Location:
    With G29
    Wear on the firing pin.
    Check
    Replace
    :)
     
    Sniff, ToddKS and JArthurD like this.
  4. JArthurD

    JArthurD Silver Member

    Messages:
    2,100
    Likes Received:
    5,196
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    Location:
    Manassas, Va
    The above two recommendations are solid. Try them
     
  5. JArthurD

    JArthurD Silver Member

    Messages:
    2,100
    Likes Received:
    5,196
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    Location:
    Manassas, Va

    A clear back plate will assist in being able to tell if the striker is not being pulled back far enough.
     
    ToddKS likes this.
  6. Worn

    Worn Constitutional Conservative

    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    1,202
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Location:
    Northern Arizona
    Based on the first reply by ToddKS, I dug out my orange half-backplate and put it on the slide of the gen 2. I could observe no movement rearward of the striker during the take-up phase of the trigger pull. (Who makes a clear backplate?)

    I put the orange backplate on the good slide for comparison and observed additional striker rearward travel on the take-up phase of the trigger pull. ToddKS had nailed it as to the cause of the lightness - "that the trigger bar is not pulling the striker all the way back before it is getting released."

    The jury is still out as to the cause.

    Being a curious sort, I swapped striker assemblies between the good slide and the light-strike slide. Repeating the orange back-plate trigger take-up phase, I was able to observe some movement rearward on each of the strikers (good slide and bad slide) but not as much on either as the good slide showed me with the original striker. (At least according to my non-calibrated eyeballs.)

    Question: Is a G19.2 trigger bar the same as a G19.3? I'm thinking I'll order a replacement trigger bar but I'm not certain that a gen 2 frame uses a gen 3 trigger bar. Anyone know if there is a difference?
     
  7. JArthurD

    JArthurD Silver Member

    Messages:
    2,100
    Likes Received:
    5,196
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    Location:
    Manassas, Va
    Cool! Not certain there are no differences. But you are one step closer my friend.

    I love problem solving and when it comes to my firearms, I always look at it as an adventure. Best of luck my friend.
     
  8. DJ Niner

    DJ Niner Moderator

    Messages:
    17,594
    Likes Received:
    3,617
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Location:
    North-Central USA
    Are your light-strike hits centered on the primer, or slightly off-center?
     
  9. Worn

    Worn Constitutional Conservative

    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    1,202
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Location:
    Northern Arizona
    Centered. Not Out of Battery.
     
    DJ Niner likes this.
  10. DJ Niner

    DJ Niner Moderator

    Messages:
    17,594
    Likes Received:
    3,617
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Location:
    North-Central USA
    What ammo are you using?

    Has it done it with multiple ammo types?
     
  11. Worn

    Worn Constitutional Conservative

    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    1,202
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Location:
    Northern Arizona
    Various. (115, 124, 147 gr) It showed up first with NATO 124 gr rounds but got worse.
     
    DJ Niner likes this.
  12. Butch

    Butch RetiredDinosaur CLM Millennium Member

    Messages:
    11,461
    Likes Received:
    674
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 1998
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Aftermarket parts should always be first suspect...try the Glock barrel?

    Is the firing pin moving freely? (Take the slide in hand, depress the firing pin safety with your thumb, shake the slide....hear it moving free?)

    And, have you disassembled the firing pin assembly to check the condition of the spring cups? I've had cups damaged by a pierced primer and found pieces 'floating' inside the firing pin spring, which sometimes retarded the pin's movement.
     
    DJ Niner likes this.
  13. Gloctapus

    Gloctapus

    Messages:
    1,014
    Likes Received:
    1,199
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2017
    Do you have a solid 2/3 firing pin engagement of the cruciform? If the problem is following both slide assemblies, I vote to try a new trigger bar first. If that doesn’t work, try a new connector. You really should see some rearward movement of the striker when pulling the trigger.

    Definitely make sure both slides are free of garbage and have free firing pin movement.

    Do you own any other Gen 2/3 Small frame Glocks (26,19,17,22, etc?) Borrow one is their trigger bars for troubleshooting. As far as trigger bar differences, most Gen 2 and 3 are the same, except very early gen 2’s have a higher kick-up of the cruciform. What’s your SN prefix?
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  14. DEADEYEGUY

    DEADEYEGUY

    Messages:
    1,707
    Likes Received:
    260
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    This is just a suggestion. Try cleaning out your firing pin channel if you haven't already. Sometimes the channel will get so loaded up with junk it will actually slow the firing pin down causing light strikes. Did it on my G30.
     
  15. cciman

    cciman

    Messages:
    4,540
    Likes Received:
    742
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Location:
    SW Ohio
    This is one of those that could be made right by Glock.

    Do you have the stock barrel? Send it back, and they will put it back to default position.
     
  16. ExecutiveWill

    ExecutiveWill

    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    404
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2017
    My gen 3 19 started giving me some light strikes and I found that the firing pin cups were dragging in the channel. I reinstalled and even put in an OEM red firing pin spring and the problem has since gone away.
     
  17. Mike-M

    Mike-M

    Messages:
    4,381
    Likes Received:
    4,142
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    A Gen3 Trigger With Trigger Bar is the correct replacement part for Gen3 and earlier models. Use TWTB part 357 if you want a smooth trigger face, or TWTB part 2303 if you want the original grooved trigger face.

    In 2010 the attachment points for the Trigger Spring hooks on the TWTB and on the Trigger Mechanism Housing were improved to reduce frequency of TS hook failure. It would be wise to replace the TMH with part 322 to get that improvement on the TMH end of the TS, since the new TWTB will have the improvement on the TWTB end. Replace the TS part 350 as well.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
    Lawdog3 likes this.
  18. Mike-M

    Mike-M

    Messages:
    4,381
    Likes Received:
    4,142
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Things to check IN PROPER CONDITION after light FIRING PIN strikes with failure to fire are:

    - Good RSA (and slide assembly in full battery)
    - Good ammo is used and no binding or other resistance to chambering the round is present.
    - Firing Pin is heard moving freely after the trigger has been pulled when the unloaded pistol (with closed slide) is shaken front to back.
    - Firing Pin channel in the slide is clean and perfectly round. (Use no brushes to clean because you may dislodge the polymer channel liner.)
    - Firing Pin moves freely in the its channel while the Firing Pin Safety is manually depressed.
    - If Gen4 with Magazine Catch on right side, the trigger bar is a real Gen4 TB that has NOT been replaced with a Gen3 TB or other "bumpless" TB.
    - The 5.5-lbf OEM Firing Pin Spring has NOT been replaced by an aftermarket FP Spring.
    - The Firing Pin Spring Cups are positioned perfectly.
    - The Firing Pin tip is NOT broken or otherwise damaged.
    - The Slide Lock has been assembled properly in frame with its top groove facing to the rear. (Improper installation won't by itself cause enough of an out-of-battery condition to cause FTFire, but it contributes to other abnormalities and has other serious consequences.)
     
    L-2 likes this.
  19. Worn

    Worn Constitutional Conservative

    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    1,202
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Location:
    Northern Arizona
    Thanks to all those posting helpful hints, even those of you who didn't read the entire thread before suggesting I do things that I already did. ;)

    This trip to the range, I swapped striker assemblies between slides again. I had only one light strike from the one with the extra power striker spring and many more from the standard power spring. No light stikes on using 115 gr ammo this time, but the 124 gr M.E.N. was a problem again.

    [​IMG]

    Did someone say that NATO specs call for harder primers?



    I could try A Glock barrel, but the problem slide was purchased bare and I used a Lone Wolf threaded barrel in it for years before this problem started.

    Yes. Rattles when shaken.

    I mentioned that I changed the striker springs twice. That gave me ample opportunity to check the spring cups' position and condition.

    It's somewhere between half and two-thirds.

    Agreed on all three counts. When I get to replacing things, it will be trigger bar then connector. Probably just do both straightaway.

    Done and done.

    That thought occurred but I have yet to do it until I could confirm which trigger bar is right for a G19.2. It appears to be a gen 3, PN 2303.

    Mine has a three-letter start to its serial number - well beyond the "EH" cutoff.

    Done early on, even though the firing pin rattled nicely. I take pains when cleaning to prevent gunk from getting into the channel.

    No drag in mine. Rattles nicely. I routinely give it a rattle before reassembling the slide to the frame after cleaning.

    This is confusing for me. Is the G19 TB interchangeable with a G17 TB? Everywhere these are sold, I see the 357 TB as being for G17 and large frame models, while the 2303 is for G18 and other compact models. Yes, the 357 has a smooth face and the 2303 is serrated, but that does not appear to be the only difference. One seems to be G19 while the other is G17.

    Can you clarify this?

    I'm aware of this and, yes, it makes sense to replace them both if I replace either. Thanks for the reminder.

    All good info, much appreciated.
     
    Gloctapus likes this.
  20. Gloctapus

    Gloctapus

    Messages:
    1,014
    Likes Received:
    1,199
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2017
    357 is absolutely interchangeable. It just lacks the nasty grooves that the compacts have for import reasons.