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Conifer Jack
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A question please, if you don't mind. What are these 'primer' things that all ya'll are speaking of. I'm not familiar with the term and am shocked to learn that there is a shortage of these seemingly useless and little known objects.

As soon as I'm done knapping these flints for Sunday's black powder match I shall Google this term of which you all speak.

Oh, that reminds me, better call my supplier and order another 50 pounds of black powder. :whistling:

Jack
 

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Hey

Ya'll be careful!! Or you will end up like me. If you dont go with the flow here some ******* will come along and get you points in your jacket.
A shame ya cant speak your mind here but keeping it tech is a good thing.

BTW I been Good, How do I get them points off?????
This forum is usually pretty tame... I don't know what you did or were accused of doing to get warned, but I'd just let it go.... We're all generally a pretty friendly bunch here..

IGF
 

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OBAMA !!!!! Pure and simple

When he got elected, gun sales (of all kinds) went through the roof. Ammo started being hoarded... there were RECORD numbers of people applying for their CCW (that's when I got mine). It was in papers EVERYWHERE, you didn't see it ?? Before he got elected, you could walk into Walmart pretty much at any time and pick up the ammo you needed if going to the range. Now? Pfffftt.

For reloaders... there are plenty of bullet makers, there's lots of powder / brass around... but primers is the "weak" spot of the supply system. And I think lots of reloaders starting hoarding as well. The supply side just wasn't ready for that.

Sorry... but for someone to ask this question... a bit clueless / naive in my opinion.
Over simplification. I thought global warming caused the primer shortage. It causes everything else.
Seriously, the question was a reasonable one. The reply was a bit unnecessary and over the top. I will add that, as a nation, we are more informed than just a decade ago and, IMHO, prone to over react. Market psychology is ruled by two things, fear and greed. I believe the "primer market shortage" was fear-based speculation. The dot com bubble was more "greed based" as was the housing bubble. Easy money....greed. With primers, the supply is somewhat limited in that, if you have a sudden increase in demand, the supply cannot suddenly be turned on like a water faucet. Big ammo manufacturers are at the top of the food chain and when the demand for ammo soared, it was simply too profitable to let essential components like primers, which are not as profitable by themselves, go into the reloading market. Heck! Look at the retail price for high end SD ammo. Add up the cost of the components. The profit margins have to be huge! Plus we are at war, despite what the administration claims. FYI, in Vietnam, 50,000 rounds were expended for every dead........uh, enemy soldier.
Now if everyone simply stopped buying loaded ammo at WalMart and took up reloading we just might not have had a primer shortage.
 

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The Resistance
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I have nothing to add to what's already been said, but a friend of mine shoots with a guy who works for ATK down in Lewiston. He buys primers for $9/1k.

I don't know why I'm posting this other than the information really makes me jealous, and misery loves company.
 

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Conifer Jack
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I have nothing to add to what's already been said, but a friend of mine shoots with a guy who works for ATK down in Lewiston. He buys primers for $9/1k.

I don't know why I'm posting this other than the information really makes me jealous, and misery loves company.

Take pictures of the guy with a sheep... you'll be getting primers for $9/K too. :whistling:

Jack
 

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Cool Cat
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Hey

Ya'll be careful!! Or you will end up like me. If you dont go with the flow here some ******* will come along and get you points in your jacket.
A shame ya cant speak your mind here but keeping it tech is a good thing.

BTW I been Good, How do I get them points off?????

They expire, read the T.O.S. page. ;)
 

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Cool Cat
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Maybe it is the military ordering more ammo, since the start of the sand box fiasco, than they ever had before?
 

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Production has not increased by the companies. Ammo is currently purchased thru 2020 for overseas. Since production isn't kicking in any faster and people are hoarding you get high prices + low quantities. Supply and demand. Demand is higher now.
ThaT isn't true. When the ammo shortage hit, most companies put on extra shifts. Primers here are made primarily for ammo production. So the bulk are going to that. WHat ever is left over from a run gets into the reloading chain, but it has been small quanitities. More people bought guns after PBO was elected. THose people bought ammo. As ammo supplies decreased, exp. shooters that wanted ammo turned to reloading. Now reloaders have always been a pretty small group in the ammo/component food chain. Adding 3-4 million new gun owners is a lot of ammo. Maybe another 500K people started reloading. That is a crap load of primers gon missing.
Now enter the speculators. AS shortages came up, people started buying up primers & reselling them on GB & gunshows. Foolish people were paying $100/K for primers. SO self fullfilling prophecy of a shortage. It is getting a bit better, but supplies are still short. Happened to a much less extent in 90-91 under, oh yeah, another liberal pres. I learned then to keep 5k min per size on hand. When I get down to 5K, order another 5K.:dunno: I wasn't short thru 09. When my order comes in around June, I'll be fine thru 2011.:supergrin:
 

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I have nothing to add to what's already been said, but a friend of mine shoots with a guy who works for ATK down in Lewiston. He buys primers for $9/1k.

I don't know why I'm posting this other than the information really makes me jealous, and misery loves company.
I knew a guy who was a supervisor at CCI during the last "shortage" in the 90s. He thought it was the biggest joke ever played on reloaders, he said they had warehouses full of primers that would be released when the suits thought it "was time". BTW, he never has paid for a primer since working there.
 

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I knew a guy who was a supervisor at CCI during the last "shortage" in the 90s. He thought it was the biggest joke ever played on reloaders, he said they had warehouses full of primers that would be released when the suits thought it "was time". BTW, he never has paid for a primer since working there.
Thanks. I always knew this was like the crap the oil companies pulled on us with the so called oil and gas shortage that turned out to be a manipulation of the market and there rellywasn't any shortage!
 

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I knew a guy who was a supervisor at CCI during the last "shortage" in the 90s. He thought it was the biggest joke ever played on reloaders, he said they had warehouses full of primers that would be released when the suits thought it "was time". BTW, he never has paid for a primer since working there.
Yeah, yeah, I knew a guy that knew a guy.:upeyes: It's all a conspiracy. Like the reloading community is soooo large as ATK could give flying ****k. It is such a small part of their total prduction capability. You can believe what you want, but in todays elec age, pretty tough to keep a secret like 100s of 1000s of primers sitting in storage waitng for what exactly? The price to the dist hasn't gone up much. The gouging retail price doesn't affect the wholesale price so what would be the point of the factory holding off? If they released 100 million primers today, they would all be sold in a week. So why hold onto something you already spent money on producing to sell for a $1 or $2 more/K later? Makes no sense, sorry, not buying that one.:rofl:
I do however know many people buying ammo for guns they don't own, even somne buying primers & they don't reload! Why? Speculation over commoditites. Primers & ammo have become commodities for sale to the highest bidder. When foolish reloaders stop paying $100/K for primers, then opportunists will stop hoarding them. Same for ammo. If we as shooter exercise more self control & self reliance, then the hoarders would go away.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Well, for such a "naive" and "clueless" question to have been asked about reasons for the current primer shortage, it certainly prompted some wide ranging opinions! I'll try not to do that again. :tongueout:
 

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Conifer Jack
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Well, for such a "naive" and "clueless" question to have been asked about reasons for the current primer shortage, it certainly prompted some wide ranging opinions! I'll try not to do that again. :tongueout:

Stop causing trouble with your 'naive' questions kshutt... from now on type with invisible ink... or those little digital impulses... whatever they call them. Damn electronics age.

Jack
 

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Discussion Starter #35
A question please, if you don't mind. What are these 'primer' things that all ya'll are speaking of. I'm not familiar with the term and am shocked to learn that there is a shortage of these seemingly useless and little known objects.

As soon as I'm done knapping these flints for Sunday's black powder match I shall Google this term of which you all speak.

Oh, that reminds me, better call my supplier and order another 50 pounds of black powder. :whistling:

Jack
Jack,

I bought a box of primer flints just for you, and I think they'll fit in the primer tubes of those red boat anchors that you own. Careful when you seat them though! :tongueout:
 

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Yeah, yeah, I knew a guy that knew a guy.:upeyes: It's all a conspiracy. Like the reloading community is soooo large as ATK could give flying ****k. It is such a small part of their total prduction capability. You can believe what you want, but in todays elec age, pretty tough to keep a secret like 100s of 1000s of primers sitting in storage waitng for what exactly? The price to the dist hasn't gone up much. The gouging retail price doesn't affect the wholesale price so what would be the point of the factory holding off? If they released 100 million primers today, they would all be sold in a week. So why hold onto something you already spent money on producing to sell for a $1 or $2 more/K later? Makes no sense, sorry, not buying that one.:rofl:
I do however know many people buying ammo for guns they don't own, even somne buying primers & they don't reload! Why? Speculation over commoditites. Primers & ammo have become commodities for sale to the highest bidder. When foolish reloaders stop paying $100/K for primers, then opportunists will stop hoarding them. Same for ammo. If we as shooter exercise more self control & self reliance, then the hoarders would go away.

Heck Fred the more I read the more I like you. This is so true. The companies want to sell their product and they will sell what ever they have. There is simply no benefit to holding on to product that you have paid to make when you have a market base looking to buy. The shortage will end sooner or later and there will be nothing to gain by holding onto stock. The manufactures know this and this is why they have increased production within their limits. They are not going to buy another building add equipment and staff (driving up overhead and cost to us) to fill a short term need.

I have no problem with anyone buying 20K primers to keep in their stock. The guys buying them to sell at inflated profits, well there must be a special place in hell for anyone who gouges and takes advantage of any one. Then again if you are crazy enough (or stupid enough) to pay it then you are just as much to blame. A few bucks extra for convenience I understand.
 

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Yeah, yeah, I knew a guy that knew a guy.:upeyes: It's all a conspiracy. Like the reloading community is soooo large as ATK could give flying ****k. It is such a small part of their total prduction capability. You can believe what you want, but in todays elec age, pretty tough to keep a secret like 100s of 1000s of primers sitting in storage waitng for what exactly? The price to the dist hasn't gone up much. The gouging retail price doesn't affect the wholesale price so what would be the point of the factory holding off? If they released 100 million primers today, they would all be sold in a week. So why hold onto something you already spent money on producing to sell for a $1 or $2 more/K later? Makes no sense, sorry, not buying that one.:rofl:
I do however know many people buying ammo for guns they don't own, even somne buying primers & they don't reload! Why? Speculation over commoditites. Primers & ammo have become commodities for sale to the highest bidder. When foolish reloaders stop paying $100/K for primers, then opportunists will stop hoarding them. Same for ammo. If we as shooter exercise more self control & self reliance, then the hoarders would go away.
Fred, if you reread my post you'll notice I never mentioned the current shortage, this is a different situation today. Before you label his story as
BS, I'd believe HIM before you, I can only assume you didn't live in Lewiston, Idaho and were not a production manager at CCI in 1994, if you were, I stand corrected. Why would a company hold off releasing something? In 1994 the price of primers was $XXX a thousand and primers were being rationed (if available at all) If you were management and could use a shortage as an excuse to raise prices, wouldn't you do so? FWIW, when the primers starting flowing again the price had gone up about 30% in my area, what a coincidence. BTW, for the people who can't find primers and get gouged when they do, I won't tell you what the dealers pay vs what they are selling them for, you don't have enough blood pressure medicine to bring you back down to earth.
 

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Simple supply side economics.

Demand exceeds supply.

You have hoarders and carpet baggers...... You have to realize that this shortage was percolating before 11/4/08. You have Slick Willy to blame in some respects in shutting down Govt. owned contractor run arsenals in the early 90's. Taking away production capability that now has to be made up by outside DOD facilities including foreign made ammo ie IMI. You have to support an increased training tempo for US Armed Services.

If I were the CEO of ATK......which owns CCI and Federal......my shareholders would want to max out profit potential.....profit comes from ammo not by products of making ammo ie primers and brass. But, then why is there periodically primed brass available from Federal? Or why is there LC brass available?

You do have have realize that at wholesale level CCI Except BR 2-4/Win primers are the cheapest on the market even lower priced then Wolf. So large wholesalers pay about 100 per 5K roughly. And, of course they get deliveries by truck freight. They profit comes from volume.

In the end us end users are at the whim of wholesalers being able to have product in the pipe line for local vendors.

If you want primers place an order with the like so of PV or Grafs...places that do back orders.
 

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Fred, if you reread my post you'll notice I never mentioned the current shortage, this is a different situation today. Before you label his story as
BS, I'd believe HIM before you, I can only assume you didn't live in Lewiston, Idaho and were not a production manager at CCI in 1994, if you were, I stand corrected. Why would a company hold off releasing something? In 1994 the price of primers was $XXX a thousand and primers were being rationed (if available at all) If you were management and could use a shortage as an excuse to raise prices, wouldn't you do so? FWIW, when the primers starting flowing again the price had gone up about 30% in my area, what a coincidence. BTW, for the people who can't find primers and get gouged when they do, I won't tell you what the dealers pay vs what they are selling them for, you don't have enough blood pressure medicine to bring you back down to earth.
Well, believe who or what you want. There are people that believe 911 was a Bush inside job & some of them probably used to work in the system. ATK owns CCI now I beleive. If your friend still works their, why not ask him? ATK cres very little about the reloading community. They make billions in aerospace & high tech weapons. I seriously doubt they are hoarding primers so the price goes up a couple of $$ per1000. I understand that all the primer producers are running 24/7 shifts to meet ammo & reloading demands. Maybe you or your Idaho friend can enlighten us w/ some facts instead of a good story of secret warehouses fool of primers, wahahaha!
FWIW, I do know what dealer price is on primers. I do not know what jobber cost currently are. As to my BP, I don't really care about the shortage. I am not the one complaining about shortages & costs. I learned from the 90-91 CCI induced shortage:upeyes: & have kept adequate supplies since. I am still laoding w/ some $11/K primers.:supergrin:
 

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Jack's buddy!
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fredj338 said:
FWIW, I do know what dealer price is on primers. I do not know what jobber cost currently are. As to my BP, I don't really care about the shortage. I am not the one complaining about shortages & costs. I learned from the 90-91 CCI induced shortage:upeyes: & have kept adequate supplies since. I am still loading w/ some $11/K primers.:supergrin:

You still have $11 a K primers ?

Hoarder! :tongueout:



I think dealer price is around $17 a K around here. :whistling:

Bob
 
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