What a "straw purchase" is

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by Lady Glock, Apr 6, 2010.

  1. Lady Glock

    Lady Glock

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    That is called a straw purchase and is actually VERY illegal.

    [snip]

    [RussP Note: I created this thread from posts in another thread. People need to be reminded what is and is not lawful. Remember, advocating, condoning, suggesting approval of an illegal act, or discussing how to circumvent the law is a violation of GT Rules and TOS. ]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2010
  2. Cochese

    Cochese Most mackinest CLM

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    Incorrect.

    A straw purchase occurs when someone knowingly buys a firearm for someone who is prohibited from possessing said firearm.

    This fellow is 19 years old. He may not *purchase* a pistol from an FFL until he is 21. He may legally *possess* a pistol at 18 years of age.
     

  3. drew4691

    drew4691

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    Yup. In Ohio you can't get your CCW permit till your 21, buy a pistol till your 21, but you can OPEN CARRY a pistol at age 18... :whistling:
     
  4. Lady Glock

    Lady Glock

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    I bought a gun for my boyfriend with my money. Ordered online and called the FFL to arrange for them to receive it. Asked them if it could be put in his name since it was a gift for him. They said NO...that would be a straw purchase if I bought it for someone else. He was wrong.

    I checked into it, and found out that in MN...it is called a straw purchase if you take another person's money and buy a gun for them in your name. If you buy it with your money and then gift it, it's not a straw purchase.
     
  5. HerrGlock

    HerrGlock Scouts Out CLM

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    No. Please, PLEASE do not allow this wrong definition to continue.

    A straw purchase is buying a firearm for someone else that is NOT a bonafied gift, period.

    Below is off the ATF site. Notice certain parts, specifically:
    "Generally, the straw purchaser is used because the actual purchaser is not eligible to conduct a transaction because he or she is a felon or other prohibited person. "

    BUT...

    "However, a straw purchase occurs even when the actual purchaser is not a prohibited person. The crime committed is knowingly making a false statement on the Form 4473 indicating that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser, when this is not the case. "


    http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms/ffl-learning-theater/episode-4.html
    Keep in mind that a straw purchase is a purchase in which the actual purchaser uses someone else — a.k.a. the “straw person” — to purchase the firearm and complete the paperwork. Generally, the straw purchaser is used because the actual purchaser is not eligible to conduct a transaction because he or she is a felon or other prohibited person. However, a straw purchase occurs even when the actual purchaser is not a prohibited person. The crime committed is knowingly making a false statement on the Form 4473 indicating that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser, when this is not the case. Additionally make sure you familiarize yourself and anyone who purchases a firearm as a gift with the rules associated with the ATF I 5300.2 pamphlet.
     
  6. HerrGlock

    HerrGlock Scouts Out CLM

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    You are correct. That was not a straw purchase but it would have been if your boyfriend asked you to buy it for him and you did, with your name on the 4473.
     
  7. HerrGlock

    HerrGlock Scouts Out CLM

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    With the father/son thing going on, they would probably declare it okay to proceed. Not legal advise, just reading from the same page I quoted earlier.


    http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms/ffl-learning-theater/episode-4.html
    If, however, Bobby was with his father or other legal guardian, and his father was legally eligible to obtain the handgun as a gift for Bobby, his father would fill out Form 4473, undergo the NICS check, and assume legal responsibility for the transaction and the gun. Bobby’s father could truthfully complete the Form 4473 to indicate that he is the actual purchaser because he would take title to the weapon and then transfer the firearm to Bobby as a gift.
     
  8. Cochese

    Cochese Most mackinest CLM

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    I know this. I was typing from my phone so I was paraphrasing.

    In the United States, straw purchases are a felony violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 for both the straw purchaser (who can also be charged with lying on Federal Form 4473) and the ultimate possessor. One of the questions on form 4473 is “I am the buyer of this firearm” and the purchaser must answer honestly yes or no, by checking the appropriate box in ink. However, purchase of a firearm as a bona fide gift for someone who can legally own such a firearm is permitted.
     
  9. Cochese

    Cochese Most mackinest CLM

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    I love semantics.

    And so dos the BATFE! :rofl:
     
  10. HerrGlock

    HerrGlock Scouts Out CLM

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    Yeah but that one slip could mean someone becomes a felon. Magazine/clip I really couldn't care less about but this one does get to me because of how many people actually believe they can buy for their buddy legally (other than gift) and they cannot.
     
  11. Lady Glock

    Lady Glock

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    Purchasing a firearm with someone else's money, to give to that person, is not purchasing a gift. This is a straw purchase...regardless of whether or not the person buying is your father. Though it could be claimed as a non straw purchase by the father lying and saying it was his own money and he was buying it as a gift for his son.

    Another way to do this would be for the father to buy the gun with his money and then sell it to his son.
     
  12. Lady Glock

    Lady Glock

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    RussP

    Please delete any part of my replies that are in violation of GT rules. I don't advocate breaking local, state and federal laws concerning the purchase of firearms, I was just trying to show how the purchase could be done legally.
     
  13. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    Hey LadyGlock,

    I think from what is in this thread, you are on solid ground with your logic and understanding.

    :)


    'Drew
     
  14. DaveCharlie09

    DaveCharlie09

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    I've been CCW since I was 18.:tongueout: Perfectly legal in my state.
     
  15. faawrenchbndr

    faawrenchbndr CLM

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    In Florida,...you must be 21 to purchase a firearm at a dealer.
    However, the law states an individual MAY sell a firearm to a individual, 18 years of age or older.
    As long as he/she is not restricted from legally owning one. Is that nuts, or what?! :dunno:
     
  16. HerrGlock

    HerrGlock Scouts Out CLM

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    That's the same as most other states.

    Hell, if it's the parent giving the gun to a child or spouse it's 16 in some states.

    How, exactly, is that nuts? It's been that way since the FFL system started.
     
  17. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

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    I see what he's saying...

    "It's perfectly legal for an 18yr old to go out and buy a handgun via private sale, but same 18yr old can't go into a gun store, complete 4473, and purchase a firearm"....

    Remember the movie Full Metal Jacket and "The Duality of Man"... :)

    IGF
     
  18. Gunnut 45/454

    Gunnut 45/454

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    Ah if you are the one purchasing EI buying -making the money transaction then you are the purchaser!!! So how is answering that question Yes a lie? Now if your the one filling the form out at the gunshop then your buddy is the one that wips out the cash and pays for the firearm thats a straw purchase! I can buy any firearm then give it to anyone legally able to own as a gift! MN has gone over the top an basically said you can not gift a weapon to anyone! I'm pretty sure CA, NY,MA.NJ.MY are the same way all transactions are forced through FFL's even gifts!:faint:
     
  19. Jon_R

    Jon_R

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    If you have to be 21 to buy a handgun from a dealer. You can buy a long gun at 18 from a dealer in FL.

    At 18 .22 Revolver no go. AR, AK, and Semi-Auto 12 Gauge good to go. :)
     
  20. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Hey, Lady Glock, it maybe depends on who's money it really is. No lying necessary.

    My son has money, but at 4, is it really his? I'm allowing him to keep money in his possession, but then I can redirect that money as I see fit.

    So, if he gives me money to buy him a gun, it isn't really his money to begin with. It is my money that I'm gifting him the gun with.

    Even at age 18, the same sort of father/son relationship can happen. The son gets a job and has money, but actually the father may be letting him live at home, and could claim that money, but let's the son learn a little about spending.

    The son may ask the father to buy a gun, and give the father money, but who's money is it really? The father may say, look instead of me using money I've allocated to buy a new tv, I'm going to use the money I allocated for your spending fun. That is the money that will be spent on the gun. Thus the father truly is buying the gun, and gifting it to the son.

    :tongueout:


    However, if the son is financially independent from the father, and living at a different residence, then the father buying the gun with the son's money would be more logically a straw purchase.

    :)


    An interesting test would be, what would happen after the father came home with the gun, and the son hadn't cleaned his room, and the father decides not to give the gun to the son.

    Can the son claim ownership of the gun? Can the son say, well that was my money, and you have to give me my gun? Or can the father say, look junior, you do what I say around here or I'm not giving you anything.

    If we can see how the father can rightfully keep the gun, and not owe any money to the son for it, then clearly it was the father who made the purchase and owns the gun. And then obviously the father did not lie on the form, and did not do anything illegal.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010