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What A Group Of Very Clueful Folks Carry

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Amazing that range instructors were carrying the range queen 9mm.
Not sure what any of that really means.

Givens' students have put up quite a good record against real bad guys: 63 wins, 0 losses, 3 forfeits. The 3 forfeits were students who were unarmed the day their number came up. All handed over their money but were shot and killed anyway.

So, for the 63 winners, do you think their caliber of choice really mattered?
 

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I was bored to tears listening to him blather on before the thing was even half through.
TLDW
I wonder how many realize that he spits out “controversial” videos from time to time just to stay relavent in the world of YouTube. He, like several other Tube personalities realize that the best way to be viewed is to have some sort of school girl cat fight going on.
I’ve shot the guns that I depend on enough to be confident in them. I’ve got more confidence in them to go bang than I do his commentary. He reminds me of YankeeMarshal.
 

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If I were as highly trained as these cats, could understand their choices and would probably do the same. One of my favorite carries is a Glock 26, with some brand of front optic which I forget, all I know is it shoots low if I use my typical alignment, have to put the top of the rear sight on the bottom of the front sight and make the objective disappear behind the front optic.

For my two other regular carries, only score on the fact the Sccy is 9mm. The other misses all the way around, .380, manual safety, 7 rounds max, and what most people say is a horrible trigger.

Doesn't matter to me, for my use having a handgun that weighs in at under a pound is more important, that rides in my weak side pocket and is completely forgotten for 99% of my day, the 1% being when I put it in the pocket, and take it out.

It will be there when I need it, for a civilian such as myself is all I need, if I need it.

Stats say, I never will, am more likely to be hit by lightning than needing a defensive handgun in an SD situation. FWIW, know 3 people who have been hit by lightning, and all survived.
 
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Well...evidently I don't have a CLUE. I don't carry either of those guns. Though, I do own a M&P Shield, but it's in .45 ACP. I'm so clueless!
Well, there will always be us old farts on either side of the Gaussian curve. There is absolutely nothing wrong with carrying a .45, if it works for you, and more right with it than wrong. Yes, it is old, it is slow, but once it gets where it is going, gets the job done.

That is sort of how we old farts roll.
 
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Now I am depressed, because I am not clueful.

Me and my 1911 will go off an molt in solitude.
Did you mean sulk, or are you actually shedding your skin? Let me get a camera set up, we can make some money on Youtube if you are actually molting.
 

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I wonder how many realize that he spits out “controversial” videos from time to time just to stay relavent in the world of YouTube. He, like several other Tube personalities realize that the best way to be viewed is to have some sort of school girl cat fight going on.
I’ve shot the guns that I depend on enough to be confident in them. I’ve got more confidence in them to go bang than I do his commentary. He reminds me of YankeeMarshal.
That was my take as well... Mr. Neckbeard Hipster, Innernet Eggspurt.

The mention of his cadre of pros, using primarily modified Glocks, tells me they aren't professional hired guns using issued equipment.
 

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For my activities, dress, etc., my primary is a J frame revolver. I guess I am clueless.

Just watching the first few minutes, he polled rangemaster instructors and the qualifications he cites really doesn't qualify them to determine the most effective caliber and gun type that is best. It tells me that they can instruct people at the range.

Of the ones that didn't carry 9mm, they chose 40S&W and that was because they either competed with that caliber or that was their duty weapon and they wanted to remain consistent whatever the hell that means.
 
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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
I wonder how many realize that he spits out “controversial” videos from time to time just to stay relavent in the world of YouTube. He, like several other Tube personalities realize that the best way to be viewed is to have some sort of school girl cat fight going on.
I’ve shot the guns that I depend on enough to be confident in them. I’ve got more confidence in them to go bang than I do his commentary. He reminds me of YankeeMarshal.
The data is the data. Are you saying he made it up or something?
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
The takeaway is that you should probably carry a glock or M&P pistol chambered in 9mm, and carry HST or Gold Dot ammo.

If you deviate from that, you should realize you are deviating away from expert opinion... which isn't necesarily wrong, but you ought to have a meaningful reason for your own circumstances.
This pretty much sums it up. Nice post.
 

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clueful: "well informed"

I carried a Glock 26/27 appendix IWB for about 15 years.
Moved up to a Glock 19/23 appendix IWB for a couple years.
Transitioned to strong side IWB over a year ago
That being said...

For strong side IWB (3:00) I've tried various size Glocks (19/21/35)
According to my unclueful hip Glock 35 most tolerable cause slide long enough to get past/off it.
However, unclueful hip very opinionated and determined that 1911 offers most comfort.

comfort > clueful consensus :miff:
 

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So these “clueful” instructors carry stuff that is also popular with the general public.....

I carry a striker fired gun at and away from work. If I change my type of work gun (1911 or DA/SA) I’ll also change my away from work gun.
I use what works for me. What works for me may or may not work for someone else, same as this “clueful cadre”
 

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I've met or have known my fair share of instructors were could probably be considered well informed. The majority of them were LE instructors, but now and again I came across some who also taught outside/commercial classes.

While it might have sometimes been of occasional passing interest what some instructor might be carrying, it wasn't of any real significance or interest to me. Instead, I was primarily interested in how well they could use whatever it was they were carrying. That hasn't changed.

Over the years of seeing different age groups (generations, if you'd rather) come through ranges and classes, I noted that the choices were often influenced by the backgrounds and work experience of the instructors.

The "age of plastic" could still mean someone who may have formerly used 1911's or revolvers for work, of course, depending on their age and experience, but it often started to mean that they were simply new enough to being instructors that they'd only really experienced using one or another of the current crop of plastic pistols.

I've seen my fair share of newer LE firearms instructors who simply weren't at all familiar with 1911's or revolvers. The lingering presence of some TDA (DA/SA) pistols in the LE field was as close as some of them had ever come to SA or DA triggers, and not everyone was comfortable or seemingly well experienced in those.

I've had some less experienced firearms instructors look at me weirdly when I opined that there's a difference between being experienced "enough" (with a particular gun make/model/caliber) for the specific agency or student/staff group you're responsible to help ... versus being a firearms instructor well versed and experienced in using a variety of handguns that might be used in both duty and off-duty roles by the people you're helping train and qualify. (Kind of like so many newer LE instructors want to be rifle instructors, but give scant attention to learning to run/teach shotgun.)

This is where I suspect (hope?) that private/commercial firearms instructors might still have some more leeway (or at least interest) in what they're willing to learn themselves, and make themselves able to teach to others.

Equipment choice is either a personal matter (for any number of possible reasons), or a professional matter (issued equipment, policy restrictions, etc). If someone is looking to an instructor for guidance or suggestions, hopefully that person understands the reasoning being used by the instructor, and can decide for themselves whatever has influenced the instructor is of any particular significance or relevance to them, as students. I've certainly helped other shooters (as an instructor) when they were using different equipment/weapons than me, and if it worked for them, it worked for me. ;)

Whenever I've been asked for advice in selection of off-duty weapons, I always tried to take the familiarity, training and experience of the person into consideration. I listened to their preferences, and asked questions to try and gain some insight into why they had those preferences. I also tried to let them try examples of their preferences on the firing line (if I or another instructor owned them, or we had any in the training inventory).

Naturally, sometimes a little live-fire can change someone's mind, and then it was a matter of finding out why they suddenly changed their minds, and going forward from there.

It probably helped that I owned/carried 3 of the major pistol duty calibers, including a variety of pistols in standard, compact & subcompact sizes, and still used/carried revolvers and 1911's.

I didn't shill guns or calibers, nor expected anyone I was responsible to train to emulate my choices or preferences. My choices, and reasons, might have little relevance to any particular guy or gal asking for suggestions. It had to be about, and for, them. ;)
 

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Survey population is rangeMagazine Certified instructors that self-selected responded to the online survey.
One additional item of interest to me is that the respondent preferred hand held lights vs. hangun attached lights.
The decision to utilize weapon or hand held light sources needn't be a mutually exclusive one.

Aside from the pile of broken parts from different weapon lights I watched grow on our armory bench, and the occasional problems experienced by owners/users, the subject of weapon lights can be one which is more than a little variable when it comes to the LE instructors I've known, and with whom I've worked alongside. (This includes some instructors who also served as swat or other special enforcement firearms instructors outside of their "regualr" LE instructor duties.)

Hanging a light on a pistol is a bit different that using one on a slung long gun. The holster has to either accommodate the pistol with the light attached, or else the user has to have the time and ability to retrieve the light and attach it after drawing the weapon from the holster.

Drawing and holstering with a light attached may present a difference in technique for some users (holsters, type of light and how it changes the configuration profile, etc).

The use of weapon lights means the light is only able to be ON when the weapon is drawn ... but there are any number of possible situations where a cop may not have determined drawing his/her weapon is reasonable and appropriate (or within policy), yet, but he/she still needs to illuminate something. That's obviously the purpose of a hand held light, right? If you've already got that hand held light in your non-dominant hand, and are actively using it, and then decide it's necessary to draw a weapon ... you either have to continue using the hand held unit, or take the time and manipulative effort to secure it (or drop it?).

I've seldom seen a LE firearms instructor (I've personally known) who regularly used a weapon-mounted light on-duty, who also carried a light mounted to their off-duty weapon. The handful of times I've seen one try it, it was the bulk of the concealment holster which eventually seemed to cause them to change their mind. They'll often carry a small hand held light, though.

Another issue regarding weapon-mounted lights is learning when and how to utilize the light spray, without sweeping something that's not been clearly identified as a threat which is going to be shot.

Then, there's the issue of training sufficient to help prevent hand/finger confusion from occurring under stress, causing an unintended trigger press instead of a light switch press/activation. Training issue.
 
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