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War Veteran Arrested for “Rudely Displaying” Rifle

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by HerrGlock, Apr 16, 2013.

  1. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    You've been in Illinois too long


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  2. BlackPaladin

    BlackPaladin

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    No, thats just the way things work. I bet if you pulled a stunt like the POS who was arrested, you wouldn't want to drop your soap where you would be going either.
     

  3. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    What stunt did he pull?

    You believe it's acceptable to stop and detain someone for simply walking down the street like warcry said?

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  4. WarCry

    WarCry

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    The Supreme Court has said it's okay.


    If they get a call of a suspicious person, and I match the description, police can stop me and question me. That's proven law.

    As to your other question about being put on the hood of a car, if I don't follow the officer's instructions, act belligerent, etc, you're damn right they can do that.

    Most cops - and most rational people - won't get to that extreme. Most cops are going to know that a guy walking down the street is likely just a guy walking down the street. And the guy walking down the street generally isn't going to become a blithering idiot like the guy in this video.

    Now, you take that circumstance, and put a gun in an operational-ready position and it changes the whole game.


    Earlier I stated that I've seen your posts and believed you to be smarter than you were demonstrating. You're doing a good job of showing me that I may have been wrong in that sentiment.
     
  5. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Case law?

    What case law supports a stop and frisk unless an officer witnesses suspicious behavior?

    Just walking down the street. Some old lady calls because she doesn't recognize him. Officer arrives. Still just walking.

    What case law says he can be detained and put on the hood of a car if he declines to stop and answer questions?


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  6. WarCry

    WarCry

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    A Terry stop is pretty broad in it's definitions. If a person calls in a report, police have to investigate it. They may know it's going to be nothing, but they investigate because that's what they're paid to do. At this point, that would include something like this:

    Cop to guy on the street (probably out the car window): "Hey, we got a call that someone's been acting fishy around here, and you match the description. You live around here?" etc
    Guy on the street (rational guy): "Yep, I'm about 7 blocks up. I don't normally walk through here, but my car died, so here I am..."

    Now, if the cop decides to run an ID, he can do that because he's investigating POSSIBLE criminal activity.

    BTW, this part?
    That's just absolute crap. If an officer had to WITNESS suspicious behavior, they would make very, VERY few arrests, ever.


    Now, this part is a COMPLETELY separate issue:
    Cop to guy on the street (probably out the car window): "Hey, we got a call that someone's been acting fishy around here, and you match the description. You live around here?" etc
    Guy on the street (you, apparently): "Screw you, cop! I know my rights and I don't have to tell you crap! Keep driving, because I ain't stoppin' for sh**!!!"

    That's probably going to garner a little more attention, and has a very high likelihood of charges of interfering with an investigation.


    Will the charges stick? Who knows, that depends on the DA/states attorney, but if you act like a tool, like the subject of this arrest (the thread, not my example), then you're probably going to find out.


    My advice? Don't be a dumbass. It hurts less.
     
  7. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    You might want to go read up on a Terry stop. It doesn't allow what you described

    Dumbass


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  8. Ruble Noon

    Ruble Noon "Cracker"

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    Come on CF, you've debated with statist's before.
     
  9. m2hmghb

    m2hmghb

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    You might want to read up on Terry. Reasonable suspicion is what is needed, that's less then probable cause. In this case there was apparently a man with a gun call. They found the person with the firearm asked him to disarm while the investigated and when he didn't he was arrested. What is so difficult to understand about that?
     
  10. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    We're discussing warcrys claim that a man walking down the street can be detained because some old lady doesn't recognize.

    There is no reasonable suspicion

    Furthermore carrying a rifle is not reasonable suspicion. What crime?


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  11. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM

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    Posting your opinion of how things should be, according to your beliefs, doesn't trump law.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 2
     
  12. m2hmghb

    m2hmghb

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    First of all I suggest you look up what reasonable suspicion is. Second WarCry did not say anyone on the street, he said anyone matching the description. I can think of several things that someone walking with a rifle can be charged with, the old catch all disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace. I'm willing to bet if the jerk had relinquished the weapon(s) while the investigation was conducted we wouldn't be talking about this and he would not have been charged with anything.
     
  13. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Reasonable suspicion of suspicious.

    Again, warcrys example. Suspicious of what? Walking down the street? Piss off. (Not you)

    If the cops had acted appropriately this guy wouldn't have gotten what you all say he wanted. There would be no story. Walking down the street with a rifle slung over your shoulder is not reasonable suspicion of criminal activity.

    I love the disorderly conduct/disturbing the peace bit. Please arrest me for that.

    Tell me what other crimes can a man walking with a rifle be charged with. I'm all ears.


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  14. WarCry

    WarCry

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    Watch as I prove I'm a bigger man...

    I'll admit, in the example I gave, I was NOT talking about a man with a gun. I was talking about the police get a call from someone that says "there's a guy walking down my street, I don't recognize him, never seen him, he's not one of my neighbors, and I think he might be up to something!" and then proceeds to give a description of the person, what they're wearing, etc.

    Now, I know - for a fact, because I've seen it happen - the cop that gets that call from dispatch is going to roll his eyes, but he'll respond to it (barring any other more immediate calls coming in). The cop is likely going to approach it with the attitude of just satisfying the lady that called it in. He sees a guy that matches the exact description, and then he'll probably just ask the "hey, how's it goin'? Mind if I talk to you a minute?"

    Now, you take that scenario, and THEN you add a gun into the mix - and not just a gun, but a gun at the ready position, and things aren't going to just be "Hey, mind if I talk to you?"




    But it IS true. I did say that a police officer will and can stop someone to ask who they are WHEN RESPONDING TO AN INQUIRY BY A CITIZEN without any mention of a gun. They'll handle it however the person they're talking to decides it should be handled.


    CF just appears to be of a mind that a police officer should never, ever, EVER talk to a citizen on the street unless they WITNESS that citizen committing a crime or the cop is violating every civil right in existence.
     
  15. WarCry

    WarCry

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    Absolutely not correct. I've already cited the Texas law that was being broken. It's disorderly conduct.

    It wasn't over his shoulder, it was cross-slung over his chest, mag in, bolt closed. You can see it in the video.
     
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  16. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Now when the cop asks to talk the guy can. No prob. You said he had to. Couldnt keep walking unless he was willing to risk his life to do it. Small difference.




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  17. WarCry

    WarCry

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    You can keep walking if you want, but the cop IS going to stop you, I guarantee it. Because that, in and of itself, is not illegal, but it IS suspicious activity, especially when responding to a "suspicious person" call.
     
  18. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    This is the nonsense I was referring to.

    C'mon LEO'S. Terry stop?


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  19. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Suspicion of what? Being black in a white neighborhood.

    Walking down the street is not reasonable suspicion OF A CRIMINAL ACTIVITY which is what Terry v Ohio requires.

    So when I'm walking down the street doing nothing wrong a cop doesn't have reasonable suspicion of criminal activity and takes me down because I won't stop and explain myself -- and cracks my head on the concrete -- who exactly do you think will be facing criminal charges?

    Failing to stop and explain who you are and why you're walking down the street is not reasonable suspicion just because some old lady thinks you don't belong in her neighborhood.


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  20. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Mag in bolt closed? What does that have to do with anything? Slung over his chest is a manner meant to alarm? What you're describing is how a rifle is supposed to be carried. You really think if the bolt was open that changes things. Good lord

    No. Waving a pistol is manner meant to alarm. Good luck getting that conviction. Maybe in illinois. The fact that you think this is disorderly conduct is laughable.


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    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013