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WA LEA Swap G21 For 9mm Glock For Failures?

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by duncan, Mar 14, 2004.

  1. duncan

    duncan Lifetime Member Millennium Member

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    Caught the back end of the story around seattle last night.

    Local police dept had a couple of G21s "apparently blow up" and Glock swapped them for 9mm Glocks during investigation.

    Sounds like either too hot ammo or something wrong with those barrels in that lot.

    Anyone else hear about this?
     
  2. jeremy54b

    jeremy54b Merely Here...

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    There's a post on this in CopTalk...and it was the Portland Bureau of Police...not a Washington agency. The WA agencies that use the 21 love 'em!
     

  3. orgreg

    orgreg

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    The story is located at http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/1079183259140830.xml.


    Here it is for your convenience...

    Police replace faulty handguns

    The bureau is switching to 9mm Glocks after two .45-caliber models exploded in the hands of two Portland officers

    03/13/04

    MAXINE BERNSTEIN

    After two .45-caliber Glock Model 21 firearms exploded in the hands of two Portland police officers during training this month, Police Chief Derrick Foxworth this week ordered a recall of the weapons carried by 230 Portland officers.

    "We don't want a reoccurrence of this happening again," Foxworth said. "It's the prudent thing to do."

    The Portland Police Bureau thought the problem was caused by an ammunition malfunction. After the second explosion three days later, the bureau's training division did further analysis and determined the explosions may have been caused by a defect in the weapon or a design problem. The handgun is carried by about a quarter of the bureau's officers.

    Police will switch to 9 mm handguns. The bureau has 150 9mm Glocks in its inventory, but it will acquire more and will replace officers' holsters.

    On Friday, training division officers met with a Glock representative. They are negotiating to replace the .45-caliber weapons with 9mm handguns at no cost.

    Officials at Georgia-based Glock declined to comment, saying the company's general counsel was out of the office until Tuesday.

    Because the .45-caliber Glock is popular among law enforcement, the Portland police training officers sent a teletype to agencies nationwide. They heard back from several, including agencies in Florida and Texas, that had similar problems.

    Other agencies, including the Los Angeles Police Department, and Multnomah and Clackamas counties sheriff's departments, reported no problems.

    The Portland incidents occurred during the bureau's advanced academy firearm training. In a March 11 memo to officers, Foxworth wrote of what he called the "catastrophic failures" with the Glock pistols.

    Officer Mike Close "was on the firing line, and his gun basically exploded in his hand," Foxworth said.

    Close's fingers were bruised, and some metal lodged in his skin. He was treated at a hospital and released.

    Three days later, the same thing happened to Officer Florin Pirv, who was not injured.

    The training staff withdrew the practice ammunition, but further study revealed more serious problems. A records check also showed a similar event occurred in 1997.

    "An examination of the two guns revealed rupturing of the barrel, bulging of the slide, and the destruction of the trigger bag, magazine release mechanism, magazine and receiver," the chief's memo said.

    In each case, the bullet failed to feed into the weapon's barrel, and the primer ignited, causing an explosion that blew out the magazine seated into the weapon, police said.

    The weapon'srecall was the topic of discussion at police roll calls Friday.

    Gang Enforcement Officer Steve Collins, who has carried a .45-caliber Glock for more than 10 years, said: "I've always felt confident with it, but now that this has come to light, it's not worth it."

    The bureau said it would start replacing the guns first for patrol officers in the operations branch, followed by detectives. The chief also halted practice shooting and firearm qualifications with the .45-caliber pistols.

    The swapping of firearms is expected to occur during the next month.

    "The design of the 9mm Glock is different and would eliminate the possibility of this happening," said training Lt. John Tellis. "That's why in our opinion, the 9 mm is the safer gun."

    Maxine Bernstein, 503-221-8212; Maxinebernstein@news.oregonian.com.
     
  4. Morris

    Morris CLM

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    I have a funny feeling PPB will come out with egg on its face . . . again.
     
  5. braindead0

    braindead0

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    What's the big diff? Won't fire out of battery?

    Anybody ask these LEO's how often they clean their guns? I know of a few LEO's that never clean them at all.. wonder if they're shooting lead practice ammo?

    It'd be interesting to get more specific details.
     
  6. orgreg

    orgreg

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    For the record, I'm not passing judgement on the PDX PD's decision. ...just sharing the news story since somebody asked.
     
  7. braindead0

    braindead0

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    And like pretty much all news stories, it's short on facts ;-)

    Oh well, maybe somebody around here can shed more light on the issue..
     
  8. duncan

    duncan Lifetime Member Millennium Member

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    Exactly, I'm a member at a local police range (they have civilian members) and those are some dirty guns they sometimes practice with.

    And did they seat the mag? Slam it? Or try to slam load a round and it went off?
     
  9. Chocolate Thunder

    Chocolate Thunder

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    It happened in training with rookie cops. Not sure how clean the guns were or weren't. The ammo was Federal Hi-Shok 230gr JHP. I for one hate the idea of having to give up my .45 but hey I got a family to support. I guess you will have to call me an Angry Puppy instead of a BIG DAWG from now on.. ARGH!!!!!!!!;4 ;U ;I ;I ;I
     
  10. Morris

    Morris CLM

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    I posted the original thread with teletype on CopTalk. We've had some input there from those in the know.

    As for cops cleaning guns, I know of what Duncan speaks. Nearly every department I know have written policies about clean guns or cleaning duty issued firearms. Yet I find officers with filthy duty guns come annual armorer inspection time. I would believe the excuse of it was dirty because they just went to the range. Out of a department of 22, I know better. Yet supervisors are loathe to conduct the occasional spot inspection of duty pistols because it would cause hard feelings among the shift members (I do not make this up).

    Meanwhile, back at the range, functioning issues start, usually because of dirty pistols.
     
  11. duncan

    duncan Lifetime Member Millennium Member

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    Hi Morris!

    Haven't talked to you in a while.

    Isn't this a trip? The rounds appear to have gone of exiting the mag, maybe stuck on the feed ramp but not chambered? Wonder if they were not poorly slingshotting their slides and got that bang?

    If the length of the ammo is too short or too long, that happens.

    If the cases were not properly formed and you have a slight bulge, it happens.

    Oh well!

    Seen plenty of misfeeds and stovepipes at competitions with Glocks, 1911s, Sig, Beretta's, Colts, etc. Usually the ammo because 45 ACP is a real low pressure round even in the self defense ammo. So I think they really had a bad batch of Federal ammo. Wouldn't be the first?

    Still need to meet you for coffee one day!;Q
     
  12. WalterGA

    WalterGA Millennium Member

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    If you gave up your Big Dawg based on that sillyass report out of Portland, then I'd have to call you "Stupid Puppy"!