Vortex? Best rifle flash hider? M1A v M4 V AK flash?

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by alfred10, Feb 22, 2010.

  1. alfred10

    alfred10

    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Whats the best flash hider for an AK47, M1A Socom and M4? Can you make your rifle so that it doesnt blind you if you would have to fire in complete darkness. I have a Draco pistol that is really bad with muzzle flash. Is it possible to lessen it?

    I want to take a rifle and fully equip it with optics, light, and flash hider. Am stuck between M4, M1A socom, Ak47, and M1A full size. How much difference in muzzle flash is there between these? I have been turned off by the AK b.c mine SAR1 is really bad with a bare barrel and it didnt improve much with a 74 brake... How do you know if these vortex's will fit?
     
  2. Andrewsky

    Andrewsky

    Messages:
    3,564
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    In my opinion, the Vortex is the best. There is nothing wrong with the A2 birdcage, I just think the Vortex is easier to clean in the field if the need should arise.
     

  3. KalashniKEV

    KalashniKEV

    Messages:
    6,391
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2003
    Location:
    NoVA
    Vortex or AAC Blackout are universally agreed to be the best.
     
  4. alfred10

    alfred10

    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Whats the difference between the Blackout and vortex? Who makes the best model that improves accuracy?
     
  5. Milesmaster

    Milesmaster

    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Location:
    At your 6
    YHM Phanton should be a good option too!

    it works fine on my AK 223!
     
  6. uzimon

    uzimon Daca is caca

    Messages:
    2,128
    Likes Received:
    458
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Location:
    Cypress,Tx
  7. KalashniKEV

    KalashniKEV

    Messages:
    6,391
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2003
    Location:
    NoVA
    Huh?

    Talkin' bout a flash suppressor, right?
     
  8. Dr. J Frame

    Dr. J Frame LSWCHP +P

    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Location:
    sticks
    Yep. Simple and effective. Bottom slots are covered so dirt/snow/debris aren't blasted around when firing in the prone position. I've shot a lot at night in the Cavalry and while varmint hunting. Guess I've never had a need to try something new.

    A2 birdcage-
    [​IMG]
    (Below)I'd probably break one of the 'fingers' off this Vortex-style the first time out. Or bend one into the bullet path. Doesn't look fool-proof. Situation Happens.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. reaper8154

    reaper8154

    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    My next build will have the Blackout. Heard nothing but great things about it.
     
  10. diamondmike

    diamondmike

    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2004
    Location:
    Hebron Ohio
    Phantom is really good and sold by Bushmaster for the AR
     
  11. uzimon

    uzimon Daca is caca

    Messages:
    2,128
    Likes Received:
    458
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Location:
    Cypress,Tx
    will a bayonet fit over it (ak)?
     
  12. Novocaine

    Novocaine

    Messages:
    2,508
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2004
    I don’t have direct experience with Blackout but it seems to be the hot potatoes these days for an M4. However, I’ll second Dr. J Frame. Not a fan of an open prong or an open bottom designs. They are generally best for reducing muzzle flash but tend to catch on things and kick up dust when you’re shooting prone. So A2 Birdcage it is.

    Without any muzzle device AK-47 is the least and Socom is the most flashiest. Same goes for the noise. A lot depends on ammo. You have excellent choices in .223 and almost none in 7.62 X 39.

    Russians didn’t bother to put flash suppressor on AK except for AKMN which was equipped with NV scope and had a slender M14-ish FS. 74 brake is a brake, not really a FS.

    And a bit off-topic: the best FS for .223 that came through my hands is the one I designed myself. :) This baby is a badass but I don’t keep it on SD weapons for liability reasons.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. NeverMore1701

    NeverMore1701 Fear no Evil Platinum Member

    Messages:
    41,255
    Likes Received:
    8,925
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Location:
    Amarillo, Tx
    Wanna run that by us again?
     
  14. Novocaine

    Novocaine

    Messages:
    2,508
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2004
    I design all kinds of things as a hobby. This device stems from the project where I tried to reconcile FS with compensator. Dilemma is that a good FS wants to break up the exhaust gases into turbulent streams. This way they mix up with ambient air and cool below the point of candescence faster. Good comps like to use more powerful laminar jets.

    This prototype is the second out of three that I built before shelving the project. It’s stripped, some of the components migrated to the third prototype but as is this piece is most excellent FS. I thought it would be a shame to lock it up. :)

    It's not compatible with a standard bayonet or a sound suppressor and will obscure the front sight on Mini-14 (I have different design for Ruger) but is robust and snag proof: all I would need in a FS if I was inclined to put it on a SD weapon.
     
  15. NeverMore1701

    NeverMore1701 Fear no Evil Platinum Member

    Messages:
    41,255
    Likes Received:
    8,925
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Location:
    Amarillo, Tx
    And why wouldn't you put it on a SD weapon? Just because you made it?
     
  16. Novocaine

    Novocaine

    Messages:
    2,508
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2004
    Pretty much. However farfetched scenario it is I don't think it would be fun to watch prosecutor telling jury how I went beyond of what's available to even LE and military personnel to make my weapon "deadlier" and how I was just itching for an opportune moment to try said deadliness out.

    I live in San Francisco. Despite of what people think most of LEOs here don't view a gun in private hands as a thermonuclear device. My dumbass neighbor three houses down the block shot his pistol in the air to scare off a bum. Cops came, basically told the guy "don't do it anymore" and that was that. But prosecutors, who knows? It just something little extra that I don't need to worry about if such a legal situation arises.

    A2 works almost as good. So I keep factory birdcages on my ARs.
     
  17. rtl

    rtl Robby The Guy Millennium Member

    Messages:
    878
    Likes Received:
    12
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 1999
    Location:
    Wichita
    AAC Blackout. Very tough........no way you're gonna break or bend those, and with only 3 straight stems very easy to keep clean :)
     
  18. PlasticGuy

    PlasticGuy

    Messages:
    5,165
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2000
    The things that increase flash are large volumes of powder, slower burning powder, and shorter barrels.

    The 5.56/.223 uses a relatively small amount of fast burning powder, so unless the barrels is cut really short it is easy to suppress the flash. We do night quals at work with our colt M4's, and the flash isn't bad even with a standard a2 hider.

    The 7.62x39 uses a bit more powder, but it is even faster burning so unless the barrel is cut really short it is easy to suppress the flash. The AK74 style brake and the slant break both give off some flash, but a simple a2 style works well and the M60 style that I have on a couple of my Bulgarians works even better.

    The 7.62x51/.308 uses a lot more powder and it is a bit slower burning than what the 5.56 uses, so it takes a longer barrel and a good flash hider to keep flash low. I tried a few different hiders on my 16" DSA FAL, and never did find anything that really excelled at keeping the flash low. That much medium burn rate powder in that short of a barrel seemed to give a fair amount of flash and blast no matter what I screwed onto the end of the muzzle.

    I've used the Vortex some, and while I like the reduction in flash I hate how it can snag on things, the "twang" noise is kind of annoying, and it kicks up a bit of dust from a prone position. The Blackout is supposed to be quieter, but it seems like it could still snag on things and would still kick up dust when shooting prone. While I like some of the new flash hiders that have come out lately and would like to switch, I still haven't found anything that I would consider to be a leap ahead of the old a2.
     
  19. Milesmaster

    Milesmaster

    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Location:
    At your 6
  20. DaGroaner

    DaGroaner Anti-Socialist

    Messages:
    20,343
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2004
    Location:
    Firmly planted under Statist skin
    I wouldn't buy anything from a MA-based company. Just sayin'...