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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Why not have voluntary national service, not talking about voluntary military service, but voluntary for 18 year olds say for two years? In service to America.

Something where a little has to be given. Where you learn the virtues of the American System. Where you earn your right to be an American. There was a reason why you had to own property to have voting rights way back. The belief was that by owning property you had a stake in the community. And most able bodied males between the ages of 16 and 45 were members of most state militias. Security reasons aside, those in the militia had a stake in the community. Naturally for their sacrifice and duty, extra privilege should be bestowed. I believe by providing voluntary national service, and benefits to go along with it we would be creating this stake.

I'm sure that what I'm proposing is oddly unconstitutional on various levels. In a world where sacrifice is not considered a virtue, and entitlement is expected I am not surprised by this, but I think my idea, properly fleshed out, would work greatly in reversing those trends.

I have no idea how this would be implemented.

But hey, stuff like this is what GNG lounge is for.

Thoughts?

Best,

Dave
 

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The only way I would agree with something such as this, is in the case of illegals/amnesty.

I would prefer the illegals serve in the military to become US Citizens. If they are willing to die for the country then I believe they are worthy of staying here.

As far as the natural citizens, what about those with disabilities? Down Syndrome, Autism, Blindness, Deafness, everything the "national" service would have problems dealing with due to their disabilities.

Im not so crazy about the idea of having to "work" for your rights the Constitution provides, provided you obey the laws of the land.
 

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Honestly, I don't think people would learn a thing from it. It would just be another hoop people would have to jump through to get to where they are going. If kids aren't taught right at home no government program is going to fix it.
 

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learn the virtues of the american system?

that's frightening...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hollowhead,

Having worked for an off shoot of both organizations in the past, your response cracked me up.

22GlockTX,

When I was writing this up I thought about people with disabilities. Does the phrase "soylent green is people" mean anything? WAAAY JUST KIDDING!!!! Seriously, exceptions would have to be made for them.

Of course you don't like the idea of working for constitutionally bestowed rights. No one does. That was the point. Let me say this though. I don't think anyone loses any rights, just that service provides significant privilege to those who perform it that enhance those rights.

I'm mostly thinking this up as I go.

Best,

Dave
 

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The biggest problem with your idea is that it would be run by the government. That means it would cost a lot and be inefficient. We have the military for those who are inclined and thousands of opportunities for young people to be involved and to earn scholarships and life experience in the private sector. What we don't need is more bureaucracy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Kilgore,

You know, American system, bill of rights, capitalism, American exceptionalism, freedoms we have, that other people in 3rd world rat holes, like NORTH KOREA, never heard of. Think of it as American Civics Appreciation 101. So yeah some of it would probably be flat out indoctrination, though I don't envision people goose stepping to the star spangled banner.

plr19,

Really? Besides I would never have a haircut like that.

2afreedom,

I kind of agree. That is my biggest problem with this is taking guv out of the equation.

Best,

Dave
 

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Why not bring back slavery?

COTUS, read it, love it.
 

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I guess I was reminded of Heinlein's Starship troopers where military service was required in order to have full voting rights.
Do some more reading.

That book was an anomaly, it did not represent the views he expressed in the majority of his other books (many of which took a very negative view of military service).

In general, his philosophical outlook was opposed to subjugating your free will to governmental authority.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
holesinpaper,

Because slavery is outlawed by the 13th amendment. Though I hardly suspect that my thoughts equate to involuntary servitude.

Wasn't supporting Heinlein's personal philosophy. The book just reminded me a little of what I was thinking about.

Still this discussion is moving much faster than I anticipated. Keep it coming. It is very interesting to me. Seriously.

Best,

Dave
 

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Not just no, but hell, no.

You say "in service to America, not the government", but you proceed to describe governmental service (whether military or otherwise). You propose more income redistribution to those who work in government.

I have an idea. End income redistribution. Take away the incentive to slack. People serve America by directly bettering their own lives and thus grow this great country. Restore freedom.

If you want to give increased voting rights to a group, why not a larger say for those who contribute more? They have more at stake, yet their say in the balloting booth is the same as the one who contributes nothing (or leeches). Why tie increased representation to (thus nearly mandated) military or other government work?
 

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holesinpaper,

Because slavery is outlawed by the 13th amendment. Though I hardly suspect that my thoughts equate to involuntary servitude.
You tie governmental servitude to significant monetary and civic advantages. While you maintain "voluntary" by stating people aren't absolutely required to perform the service, it does rather reek of the federal government's way of forcing the states to bend to its will..."Sure, you can opt out, but we'll withhold the money promised you. Oh, and we'll still tax you for it as well. Sorry. It's voluntary though!"
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Not just no, but hell, no.

I have an idea. End income redistribution. Take away the incentive to slack. People serve America by directly bettering their own lives and thus grow this great country. Restore freedom.

If you want to give increased voting rights to a group, why not a larger say for those who contribute more? They have more at stake, yet their say in the balloting booth is the same as the one who contributes nothing (or leeches). Why tie increased representation to (thus nearly mandated) military or other government work?
I agree! I think you just coalesced mostly everything I was saying right to it's core. and took guv out of the equation. Though I will say that those who bleed or sacrifice for the country should possibly have more say. I'm 100% positive that I wasn't intending to place government bureaucrats in the same standing as the latter. You provided the qualifier for that, "those that contribute."

Best,

Dave
 

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holesinpaper,

Because slavery is outlawed by the 13th amendment. Though I hardly suspect that my thoughts equate to involuntary servitude.
3/5ths of a citizen, unless you do XYZ.

Yeah, totally different. You suggest a whole different way to make a 2nd class non-citizen.

You're a genius, a true patriot.
 

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Kilgore,

You know, American system, bill of rights, capitalism, American exceptionalism, freedoms we have, that other people in 3rd world rat holes, like NORTH KOREA, never heard of. Think of it as American Civics Appreciation 101. So yeah some of it would probably be flat out indoctrination, though I don't envision people goose stepping to the star spangled banner.

plr19,

Really? Besides I would never have a haircut like that.

2afreedom,

I kind of agree. That is my biggest problem with this is taking guv out of the equation.

Best,

Dave
Unless your government makes you.
 
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