Volume: M4 type vs. HD shotgun

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Burns, Jan 11, 2010.

  1. Burns

    Burns

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    Here's a question for someone who knows what the heck they are talking about. Which is louder?:

    - An M4 type rifle with a 16" barrel

    - A HD shotgun with an 18.5" barrel

    I'm looking for someone who has empirical knowledge on this or at least has experience shooting both at an indoor range.

    Thanks!

    Burns
     
  2. chuckman

    chuckman

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    My experience: a shotgun is louder.
     

  3. Mwildt

    Mwildt

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    I've shot both outdoors, not indoors, without hearing protection. My AR was intentional, just to see. While my Benelli Super Nova with 18.5 barrel was on accident, forgot to put my ear plugs back in. Honestly, they're about the same, loud. I'd say the AR was a 'sharper' type of loud while the Benelli was a 'deeper' loud. If that makes sense...
     
  4. Burns

    Burns

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    That makes sense. My question is really twofold in purpose:

    1. Which one will do more permanent hearing damage in an HD situation (the lesser concern).
    2. Which one will render me more unable to hear BG's immediately following my first shot.
     
  5. CharlestonG26

    CharlestonG26

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    In the extremely rare situation where a civilian is required to use deadly force inside their residence...concern for hearing damage due to weapon discharge noise would be at the very bottom of most people's list of concerns.

    But here's a helpful idea...keep a pair of hearing protectors on your nightstand...right next to your flashlight.
     
  6. Burns

    Burns

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    I completely agree; actually, that's why I mentioned that it is "the lesser concern." I'm not worried about it, I'm just curious. IOW, if dumping a mag indoors would permanently effect my hearing, it would be nice to know.

    The problem with hearing protectors would be that in an HD situation, I wouldn't want to cut off my sense of hearing. Perhaps some of the "smart" protectors would be a viable option; the ones that cut out sound only above a certain decibel level, and amplify sound below that level.
     
  7. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    That depends on a myriad of things.

    Your frame of mind, how much adrenalin is being dumped in your system, the relative humidity (seriously), the temperature, the focal point of the sound relative to your ear drum...how close you are to a reflective surface (standing, kneeling, lying down, in a corner, kneeling in a corner...ammo used, where the ejection port is relative to your ears, etc etc

    The signature from a AR 15 is a loud crack over a "X" time.
    The signature from a 12 ga shotgun is a loud boom over "X+Y" time.


    Mwildt was on the right track.


    When the time comes, hope and pray you have the gun you are most proficient with. Don't stand there looking at the two, attempting to make a decision on the parameters you outlined. If you hesitate, and the "BG" puts a bullet in your heart, what you can, or cannot hear will not matter much, will it?

    'Drew
     
  8. Burns

    Burns

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    Obviously not. Should I have prefaced this question with a disclaimer?:

    "The following question is primarily for academic consideration; I am not an idiot."

    Of course, I can't blame you for assuming that another random GT'er may be an idiot.

    Just for clarity: I wasn't intending to "outline" any "parameters" for selection of an HD gun. I am just asking a question, almost completely out of my own curiosity and interest.

    Also, I hear OTHER folks often claim that the M4 is far louder indoors than is a shotgun, which they see as an advantage for the shotgun. As has been stated, this is a probably stupid reason to ditch one weapon for another, but I'm curious as to whether or not this particular argument is actually even true to begin with.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
  9. D3S3RT_P3NGU1N

    D3S3RT_P3NGU1N

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    Choose the weapon that you're better trained and more comfortable with, if you should ever find yourself in a HD situation you want to be using the weapon you are most effective with, don't worry about your hearing
     
  10. Chad Landry

    Chad Landry Cajunator® CLM

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    Having fired guns inside of a home without hearing protection, I can tell you that you'd be very surprised at how much the surfaces in your home can dampen such sounds.

    If you have carpet, it's even less loud (I can't really say "quieter" when talking about gun shots).

    Every indoor range I've ever used has had surfaces which very much reflect sound, and these make it much louder as the sounds echo off the surfaces. The home is nothing like this. Even sheet rock dampens the sound a great deal compared to the armor plated walls at the indoor range.

    The difference in how one shot will affect your hearing will be negligible from one to the other. If you're in a real home defense situation, your senses will become more acute and focused, and time will seem to slow down for you, as your brain goes into acute danger mode.

    You won't notice your ears ringing until a while after the event has ended.
     
  11. Burns

    Burns

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    I appreciate your willingness to contribute, but that doesn't answer the question.

    Next time I am going with a "disclaimer" at the beginning of the post.

    I AM NOT WORRIED ABOUT MY HEARING. I am curious about which of the two guns is louder indoors. I will not be selecting a weapon based on it's loudness. I'm not even buying a weapon and I dislike shotguns anyway.

    As I said, permanent hearing loss due to discharging a self defense weapon indoors is a secondary (VERY SECONDARY) concern. I asked the question because:

    A. I am curious if there is a significant difference in terms of impairing one's short term hearing during a SD situation. I know it isn't a big deal, but I am curious. If you think your ability to hear whether another BD is in the next room (or standing behind you for that matter) following a shot is of absolutely NO importance, you are an idiot.

    B. I've heard guys who talk on forums (like us) say that an M4 is a poor option for shooting indoors compared with a shotgun because it is too loud. I AGREE that this is a stupid reason to choose one over the other. But the statement(s) made me wonder whether or not this was even true (that an M4 is louder than a shotgun) to begin with.

    Seriously, don't help me choose a SD firearm. This is for conversational, "academic" purposes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
  12. vafish

    vafish

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    I know that firing pretty much any non-suppressed firearm inside a home will damage your hearing.

    I thought the .223 being a higher chamber pressure round would create more sound, but from the below list it looks like .223 is a little quieter.

    Remember dB is a logarithmic scale so an increase of 3 is double the amount of noise and an increase of 6 is four times as loud.


    I found this on another web site:

    http://9x19mm.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=328&p=3909

     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
  13. D3S3RT_P3NGU1N

    D3S3RT_P3NGU1N

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    Apologies, I replied to the thread based on the impression I got having read the OP.

    As to answering your question I would think that it would depend on a number of variables such as ammo used, room size, shape and design, the reflective surfaces in that room and your distance from them
     
  14. Burns

    Burns

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    No apology necessary friend. I overreacted there a bit. I find myself exaggerating on the forum to make a point; bad habit.


    VaFish,

    Thanks for that - awesome! That's what I was wondering about.
     
  15. jtmac

    jtmac Señor Member

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    That's Baton Rouge raising for you. :shakehead:





    :whistling:
     
  16. tarpleyg

    tarpleyg

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    I can tell you that almost every RO that stands behind me at a match complains about the report from my M4 but never from my shotgun. I have a Miculek brake on it and it really does reduce recoil but it is loud as hell.

    Greg
     
  17. CharlestonG26

    CharlestonG26

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    hmmmm...I was kidding about the hearing protectors.:faint:
     
  18. BLiTzNicK

    BLiTzNicK Silent Member

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    Personally, I wouldn't worry about it. I've fired a 30-30 indoors, and after the initial ringing subsided, I could hear fine.
     
  19. Drjones

    Drjones

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    Both.

    Seriously, you plan on discharging either of those INDOORS and yes, you are most likely getting permanent hearing damage.

    Get a set of electronic muffs & keep them by the bed.
     
  20. CBennett

    CBennett

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    and makes a lot more holes with 1 pull of the trigger :)