Victor Davis Hanson: Are We on the Verge of Civil War?

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by MinervaDoe, Sep 21, 2018.

  1. MinervaDoe

    MinervaDoe

    Messages:
    18,562
    Likes Received:
    12,360
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Are We on the Verge of Civil War?
    By Victor Davis Hanson

    Something like Thucydides’ ‘stasis’ is now infecting every aspect of American life.
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/09/american-divide-culture-politicization-polarization/

    Americans keep dividing into two hostile camps.

    It seems the country is back to 1860 on the eve of the Civil War, rather than in 2018, during the greatest age of affluence, leisure, and freedom in the history of civilization.

    The ancient historian Thucydides called the civil discord that tore apart the fifth-century b.c. Greek city-states “stasis.” He saw stasis as a bitter civil war between the revolutionary masses and the traditionalist middle and upper classes.

    Something like that ancient divide is now infecting every aspect of American life.

    Americans increasingly are either proud of past U.S. traditions, ongoing reform, and current American exceptionalism, or they insist that the country was hopelessly flawed at its birth and must be radically reinvented to rectify its original sins.

    No sphere of life is immune to the subsequent politicization: not movies, television, professional sports, late-night comedy, or colleges. Even hurricanes are typically leveraged to advance political agendas.

    What is causing America to turn differences into these bitter hatreds — and why now?

    The internet and social media often descend into an electronic lynch mob. In a nanosecond, an insignificant local news story goes viral. Immediately, hundreds of millions of people use it to drum up the evils or virtues of either progressivism or conservatism.

    Anonymity is a force multiplier of these tensions. Fake online identities provide cover for ever greater extremism — on the logic that no one is ever called to account for his or her words.

    Speed is also the enemy of common sense and restraint. Millions of bloggers rush to be the first to post their take on a news event, without much worry about whether it soon becomes a “fake news” moment of unsubstantiated gossip and fiction.

    Globalization has both enriched and impoverished — and also further divided — America. Those whose muscular labor could be outsourced abroad to less expensive, less regulated countries were liable to lose their jobs or find their wages slashed. They were written off as “losers.” Americans whose professional expertise profited from vast new world markets became even richer and preened as “winners.”

    Geography — history’s intensifier of civil strife — further fueled the growing economic and cultural divide. Americans are increasingly self-selecting as red and blue states.


    Liberals gravitate to urban coastal-corridor communities of hip culture, progressive lifestyles, and lots of government services.

    Conservatives increasingly move to the lower-tax, smaller-government, and more traditional heartland.

    Lifestyles in San Francisco and Toledo are so different that it’s almost as if they’re on two different planets.

    Legal, diverse, meritocratic, and measured immigration has always been America’s great strength. Assimilation, integration, and intermarriage within the melting pot used to turn new arrivals into grateful Americans in a generation or two.

    But when immigration is often illegal, not diverse, and massive, then balkanization follows. Currently, the country hosts 60 million non-natives — the largest number of immigrants in America’s history.

    Yet unlike the past, America often does not ask new immigrants to learn English and assimilate as quickly as possible. Immigration is instead politicized. Newcomers are seen as potentially useful voting blocs.

    Tribalism is the new American norm. Gender, sexual orientation, religion, race, and ethnicity are now essential, not incidental, to who we are.

    Americans scramble to divide into victimized blocs. Hyphenated and newly accented names serve as advertisements that particular groups have unique affiliations beyond their shared Americanism.

    America is often the target of unrealistic criticism — as if it is suddenly toxic because it is not perfect. Few appreciate that the far worse alternatives abroad are rife with racism, sexism, civil strife, corruption, and poverty unimaginable in the U.S.

    The last few elections added to the growing abyss.


    The old Democratic party of John F. Kennedy and Bill Clinton is now trending into a radical democratic-socialist party. Meanwhile, the old Republican party is mostly gone, replaced by tea-party movements and the new Donald Trump base.

    Former president Barack Obama came into office from Congress with the most left-wing voting record in the Senate. Trump was elected as the first president without either prior military or political experience.

    Obama issued dozens of controversial “pen and phone” executive orders, bypassing Congress. And Trump is systematically overturning them — doing so with similar executive orders.

    Will America keep dividing and soon resort to open violence, as happened in 1861? Or will Americans reunite and bind up our wounds, as we did following the upheavals of the 1930s Great Depression or after the protests of the 1960s?

    The answer lies within each of us.

    Every day we will either treat each other as fellow Americans, with far more uniting than dividing us, or we will continue on the present path that eventually ends in something like a hate-filled Iraq, Rwanda, or the Balkans.​
     
  2. NAZG26

    NAZG26 Lost in transit

    Messages:
    6,243
    Likes Received:
    20,983
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Location:
    Arizona
    Communism or save the Republic

    Pick a side
     

  3. First shot

    First shot

    Messages:
    7,483
    Likes Received:
    10,846
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2015
    Location:
    Va.
  4. Dukeboy01

    Dukeboy01 Pretty Ladies!

    Messages:
    4,317
    Likes Received:
    4,522
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2000
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Any more, I find myself saying that I sure hope so. Let's get it on so we can get it over while I'm still young enough to enjoy the post- war peace. The last thing I need is for this cold civil war to drag on for another 25- 30 years so that I'm an old man when it finally goes hot.

    Let's get on with it or, better yet, let's avoid the hot civil war and get serious about peacefully splitting up the country instead. This country has turned into a bad marriage since the 1960s. Let's break up.
     
    paul45, pugman, marchboom and 7 others like this.
  5. TheDreadnought

    TheDreadnought

    Messages:
    9,478
    Likes Received:
    17,757
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    A civil war would be ugly, brutal, and bloody. The America that came out of it would be forever changed. No matter which side won it wouldn’t be a return to the America of the 20th century. It would be something new.

    That said, a civil war would also provide a definitive conclusion one way or another for a few generations.

    What’s more likely is that we’re on the path for decades of increasing chaos and localized violence before the country finally breaks up.

    So it’s a case of ripping off the bandaid or going bit by bit. Either way, at the end you’re bleeding and in pain. But maybe you can start to heal.
     
    Atomic Punk and ExecutiveWill like this.
  6. NAZG26

    NAZG26 Lost in transit

    Messages:
    6,243
    Likes Received:
    20,983
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Location:
    Arizona
    Socialism is just communism without guns

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Just Glocks

    Just Glocks

    Messages:
    8,256
    Likes Received:
    13,587
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    Location:
    Living off grid
    Lincoln should have minded his on business north and south should have been split democrat or Republican
    Of course there would still be hate , but across lines now the hate is everywhere !
     
    redrick and Wayward Son like this.
  8. Descendant

    Descendant

    Messages:
    912
    Likes Received:
    1,488
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    Location:
    Buckeye Nation
    The left is getting exponentially unhinged every day.
    How many times are we going to say "wow, the left can't get any crazier"

    It's going to get worse, much worse.
    Soros and others seem to have unlimited funds and an endless supply of useful idiots to wreak havoc.
     
    Brasso, Bassman1985, hogship and 7 others like this.
  9. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    Messages:
    63,023
    Likes Received:
    59,178
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Location:
    Kentucky
    [​IMG]

    . . . wait . . . do "civil war" and "zombie apocalypse" count as two things?
     
    Atomic Punk, plp, 6Actual and 3 others like this.
  10. JFrame

    JFrame

    Messages:
    55,210
    Likes Received:
    60,750
    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Location:
    Mid-Atlantic, US of A
    :rofl: :rofl:

    That there's a keeper! :supergrin:

    .
     
  11. Tickhill

    Tickhill Eternity: Smoking or Non-Smoking

    Messages:
    2,684
    Likes Received:
    4,740
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2017
    Location:
    Land mass between Louisiana and Alabama.
    Winter is coming
     
    BengalBacker and ExecutiveWill like this.
  12. MinervaDoe

    MinervaDoe

    Messages:
    18,562
    Likes Received:
    12,360
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I have faith that some future generations will see the progressive zeitgeist for the unworkable pile of rhetoric that it really is. We need to preserve enough of our freedoms to allow these kids to rebel against their progressive parents.
    I have faith that Latino culture will turn Republican the same way that Italians did. After a generation of hard work they will want to preserve what they earned and will see that allowing a welfare state to tax that and destroy their wealth is not in their best interests.
     
  13. Gundude

    Gundude

    Messages:
    9,362
    Likes Received:
    2,648
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2003
    No, we're not on the verge of Civil War, we're in an era where every idiot has access to technology (social media and high-capacity rapid-fire weapons) which allows them to affect society to a far greater degree than low-functioning impotent people like themselves were ever able to in the past.

    (I don't advocate banning or even limiting either of those technologies, by the way)
     
  14. snerd

    snerd Horselover Fat

    Messages:
    31,727
    Likes Received:
    47,707
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Location:
    Oklahoma!
    Yeah, that was kind of spelled out in the OP.........................

    What is causing America to turn differences into these bitter hatreds — and why now?

    The internet and social media often descend into an electronic lynch mob. In a nanosecond, an insignificant local news story goes viral. Immediately, hundreds of millions of people use it to drum up the evils or virtues of either progressivism or conservatism.

    Anonymity is a force multiplier of these tensions. Fake online identities provide cover for ever greater extremism — on the logic that no one is ever called to account for his or her words.

    Speed is also the enemy of common sense and restraint. Millions of bloggers rush to be the first to post their take on a news event, without much worry about whether it soon becomes a “fake news” moment of unsubstantiated gossip and fiction..........

    ===================================
     
  15. Gundude

    Gundude

    Messages:
    9,362
    Likes Received:
    2,648
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2003
    Except for the fact that apart from a tiny tiny fraction of these idiots picking up an AR-15 and shooting someplace up (which itself is blown way further out of proportion than it should be), it is entirely bluster. You're not gonna get civil war fighters out of anonymous losers on social media.

    So yeah, "bitter hatred" is up, in the fake social media world. But violence is down in the real world.
     
    happyguy and Bruce M like this.
  16. snerd

    snerd Horselover Fat

    Messages:
    31,727
    Likes Received:
    47,707
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Location:
    Oklahoma!
    Damn, we agree on something! Won't get enough fat-asses up off the couch to make even a pretend pew pew war.
     
    happyguy likes this.
  17. mboylan

    mboylan

    Messages:
    2,411
    Likes Received:
    242
    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Not going to happen. The far left and far right are at each other's throats. Most people fall somewhere in the middle.
     
    R.B. Riddick, fiveoboy01 and Bruce M like this.
  18. IAhunter

    IAhunter Venor ergo sum

    Messages:
    3,159
    Likes Received:
    6,597
    Joined:
    May 6, 2017
    Location:
    Just north of the wall, Cochise County, Arizona
    Speaking of guns, if we’re gonna have a civil war, I’m sure glad that I am on the side that has the vast majority of guns, and military personnel. What are they gonna do, throw their pink hats at us?
     
    happyguy, aircarver and Gunboat1 like this.
  19. Wayward Son

    Wayward Son

    Messages:
    4,887
    Likes Received:
    8,769
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    why should we leave it for the kids to clean up?
    shouldn't we straighten this crap out ourselves?
     
  20. NAZG26

    NAZG26 Lost in transit

    Messages:
    6,243
    Likes Received:
    20,983
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Location:
    Arizona

    There is no more middle. The Dems want open borders, healthcare and living wage for everyone on everyone elses dime , gun eradication, and illegals to vote.