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Very scary stuff hits close to home...

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by KiloBravo, Feb 23, 2010.

  1. KiloBravo

    KiloBravo NRA Life Member

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    First off, I was not positive this is in the correct forum. If not, I apologize in advance.

    Everything I am about to say is totall 100% true. I included a link at the end of this post. I just wanted to share this as kind of another "what if" scenerio. Last night, the store my fiance' works at was robbed at gunpoint. Thank God she was not working and thank God that nobody was seriously injured as far as I know.

    Three men approached the front door right at closing time. The doors were already locked and the employees that were working were cleaning up, counting the money in the register, etc. (Typical after hours clean up type stuff to get ready for the following business day.)

    When the employee refused to let them in because they were already closed, they smashed their way through the front door which is all glass. One had a pistol one a shotgun, and one had what the man working described as an "assult type" rifle with a bayonet fixed to the end of it.

    They took everybody's cell phones, broke them, and then demanded money. The worker (who I am very good friends with) complied and gave them all of the money left in the register. Sometime in the mix, they struck him on the head, took the money and the survelience equipment and fled in about five minutes.

    They believe this group of people to be involved with another armed robbery less than one day earlier. They robbed a bar next to a high class resturant and then left when the bartended told them there was no money to take. (They hit him on the head too and knocked him out.)

    All of this happened about the same time I would have been picking up my fiance from work. I have been running through this in my mind all day since I heard about it this morning.

    If you were sitting in that parking lot right outside the front door, and saw all of this unfolding, and your fiance/wife was inside working, what would you have done? I thank the good lord I did not have to find out. I obviously would have called the police and gotten a description of the vehicle and tag number, but what then? That could have just as easily been my dearest loved one had she been called in to work in place of that person as so often happens.

    I am sorry for such a long post, but I realized how close I could have been to having something terrible happen to one of the people I love most in this world.

    FYI, where this happened is about a 7 minute walk from where I am sitting here typing this right now at home. She is scheduled to work tomorrow and is reasonably upset considering what has happened.

    Link to one of the articles that have been published so far: http://wearecentralpa.com/content/fulltext/?cid=152141
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
  2. bambikilr

    bambikilr

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    sorryto hear that happened, glad your g/f was not working & no one was hurt, understanding that she would be upset & nervouse, as are you...i think i would call the police, get info as described & would just have to see how it all unfolded if one of my family was inside, ya never really know til your in that position
     

  3. ronin.45

    ronin.45

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    I'm happy no one was seriously hurt especially your fiance.
    The situation is a tough call. Three armed men with guns already out is going to be a bad fight no matter how good you are. Add in the innocent bystander/hostages and it gets even more complicated. The odds are that they would take the money and leave, so if you inserted yourself into the situation it could make things much worse. The best decision I can think of would be to get the cops on the way and stay ready in case they start shooting. It would be a trying situation to stand by and watch but it may be the best thing to do.
     
  4. MilitantBEEMER

    MilitantBEEMER

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    Thank God you did not have to find out what you would do. Scary Stuff!
     
  5. KiloBravo

    KiloBravo NRA Life Member

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    I really appreciate the support from everybody. I am extremely upset this happened and I too am happy everybody was okay for the most part.

    Now that I have had time to calm down, I am thinking that getting involved would have been a really tough decision. I would not want to do anything to risk anybody's life. Esp. if all they wanted was money.

    Thanks again for the kind words. I plan on speaking with her some more about it before she goes into work tomorrow if they are even open again by then.

    She now knows the combination to my gun safe since they still have not caught these D-bags yet. I think I will be purchasing a new pistol with my tax return and buying one of those little safes to keep under the bed so she could access that faster than my big one in a different room.
     
  6. GlockPride

    GlockPride Glock 23

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    MMQBing here: I think if it was me, as hard as it would be, would be first to get 911 on the line and get the cav rolling. Next would be exit the vehicle as I don't want to be a 'sitting duck'. HAve weapon out and ready to use. Observe. Be a good witness. I'm not going in unless someone is being shot or stabbed. And only then because things are seriously messed up anyway and not much I can do to make the situation worse. If innocent people are dying, I at least want to give them a fair shake at life.
    Sometimes life is a crapshoot, you win some and you don't others. Not much else to say about a situation that is tactically very challenging to say the least.

    Does your GF/SO stay in shape? Can she run? Does she practice self-defense? Can she carry pepper spray or a knife at work?
    What about the store...Do they have digital back-up to their security system OFF SITE? What about an alarm panic button that can be worn on the belt or around the neck. What about not keeping that much cash in the register. That much cash will garner attention AGAIN at some point since the criminal element talks.
     
  7. KiloBravo

    KiloBravo NRA Life Member

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    She has been getting into much better shape the last few months. She is over 20 lbs lighter than she used to be and she can walk/run as best as she can for being so short (Barely 5 foot tall)

    I have her carry a pocket folder and pepperspray every day. I am not sure about the backup of the camera footage. Details are still unfolding as of now.

    I just asked her and she stated there is no type of panic button or additional security system. Apparently, they cleaned out the safe and register from what I know so far. She just told me they normally do keep that much in the store at night, which I agree is a really dumb idea.

    The only self defense techniques she knows is what I have informely taught to her. All of it is pretty basic stuff though.

    I also agree about getting OUT of my truck. I figured I would have done that, and then tucked down behind the engine comparment with my gun drawn. I don't think I would have fired unless I heard them start shooting first or if they directed their guns at me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
  8. Adjuster

    Adjuster

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    Thats a no win situation. Best to wait it out. If they started shooting employees then everything needs to be reconsidered. But even then if they are already shooting employees what are you going to do??? Unless you get them totally by surprise and off guard you will all be dead. I don't know what I would do. I guess you could take a couple shots at them and that will distract them from shooting the employees until the cops get there with the calvary. Honestly I don't know what to tell you.
     
  9. GlockPride

    GlockPride Glock 23

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    Knife is good if she knows how to use. If she is trained and calm she could have one attacker down and going for a 2nd before they knew what hit them. The key is action and quickly. Get inside their OODA loop. They are not expecting action, they are expecting compliance. So any reaction is going to throw them off for a few seconds.

    Sure, knife is not the best, but if you're going to be shot or raped or worse, might not be the worst weapon available. Go for the throat/neck area and a rear approach is almost always better. Graphic? Sure! But so is being killed.

    It sounds like everyone handled themselves well. I normally am one of the 'let them take the money' folks, but sometimes it doesn't work that way and then you need a plan ahead of time.

    Some other ideas that might work in a pinch would be a fire extinguisher, discharge and hit them with it or commercial cleaning solvents. Of course, these are only possible if time and opportunity presents itself.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
  10. KiloBravo

    KiloBravo NRA Life Member

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    That all sounds great. I am relaying all of this information to her now and explaining what would be some other good options. Of course, I keep stressing that she should only try any number of those things only if she fears they are after more than just money. I think she understands most of what I am telling her.
     
  11. KiloBravo

    KiloBravo NRA Life Member

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    Yeah, I just threw this out there in case it is a situation somebody else may find themselves in. (God forbid)

    If they would have started shooting employees, I would have not had any choice in my mind but to engage as tactifully as possible. I would have needed to do something to try and keep my fiance and her co-workers alive until the boys in blue showed up.
     
  12. Detectorist

    Detectorist

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    Call 911. Under no circumstances you should try to engage them in a gun fight. 3 against 1 and you are very much outgunned.

    Even if they start shooting you must NOT start a gun fight with them. Drive away, hide, whatever.

    Did I mention call the cops?
     
  13. 9mmXRAY

    9mmXRAY IDPA MW2 GSSF

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    "I kid sometimes"
    Hell this is Florida I would have shot them in the backs soon after the invasion... they woulda never seen it coming... 3 G17 mags and sufficient IDPA/GSSF experience to easily take 3 from behind with my Frangible DRT rounds I doubt it would have taken more than 6 to kill all 3...

    Most people carry 1 type of bullet... I carry 3 different types for the occasion. FMJ's, hollowpoints, and Frangible tissue destroying DRT (Dead Right There) rounds that make your insides turn into an empty husk.

    Dont get me wrong I never wanna have to shoot anyone... but I will kill em all and let god sort them out if my brain and eyes tell me I need to and I have the opportunity to use my skills and weapon to save lives.

    But before I start going Rambo I'm going to call the COPS from my cell phone and give whatever info I can in a quickness while I attempt to sneak up... and assess the situation... but my kinda gung ho-ness comes from a WWII Vet so maybe one day it will only get me killed... but hey at least somebody will say "He tried to save them"

    Well maybe I might just pee myself... overthink... wait until my wife is shot and dead... then get them on the way out?? Umm... these tend to be morally booty ramming sometimes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
  14. 9mmXRAY

    9mmXRAY IDPA MW2 GSSF

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    I thought to myself and got chills... what if when my wife is inside talking to them... she looks at me sneaking up... then they turn and now I cannot even return fire yet.

    Lets write a movie.
     
  15. REA9mm

    REA9mm get ready

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    I agree with the comments of the others. You are obviously out gunned, so it is best to stay out of the situation if possible. I would most likely exit the vehicle and ready my weapon, using the vehicle as cover. The only situation you might possible engage them would be (and forgive me for even bringing up this nightmare scenario) if they were to try and take your fiance in the car with them. We all know that a hostage being taken to a second location does not usually end well, so this is about the only scenario I can imagine where you might feel the need to engage them.
     
  16. GAFinch

    GAFinch

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    I'd be more upset about the smashed cell phone than the money. Don't criminals have any manners?
     
  17. KiloBravo

    KiloBravo NRA Life Member

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    Reading other's responses on the internet is tough sometimes. Are you TRYING to be funny or are you always a total @$$ clown???

    Go back to the post you quoted from me and click on the link at the bottom of the page if you think what I said was made up.
     
  18. KiloBravo

    KiloBravo NRA Life Member

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    Most of them do not. I have not had a chance to talk to the guy they hit yet. He was probably told to keep quiet about the situation anyway until they finish the investigation.
     
  19. 9mmXRAY

    9mmXRAY IDPA MW2 GSSF

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    I never said it was made-up:bowdown: and I initially read everything including the link your story its very real... I guess I was a bit ambiguous with my wording I actually was serious about writing a movie with you.

    But I was kidding a bit about the rambo stuff... Just mixing it up a bit I found your story to be very close to home.

    Now back to doing... then you never really know what your going to do until your feet start moving... Might be towards... might be away.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
  20. jhmayhem

    jhmayhem

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    This terrible ordeal your wife's co-workers went through is like my worst nightmare come true from where I used to work. The fact that these three guys would be that well armed and aggressive just for $1500 show that they're dangerous people. I mean they smashed through the glass doors, destroyed everyones' cell phones and actually retrieved the survellience equipment so they could not be identified. These guys sound more like characters from Heat than stick-up men.