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Varmint Gun

Discussion in 'Black Rifle Forum' started by The Pirate, Feb 14, 2012.

  1. The Pirate

    The Pirate Grandmaaaaaaa!!!!!!

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    Looking to build a varmint gun for coyote's. Here's what I'm planning on getting unless somebody can tell me something better.

    [​IMG]

    Here's the link: http://www.model1sales.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=263

    It's going on a RRA lower with a 2 stage trigger.

    The reason I'm on here is this upper is what I'm looking for but so far the only place I've really seen this is at Model 1 Sales. I checked out PSA and a few others with no luck. Let me know if you know of a better option, I don't care to spend a little money. At this point it looks like I'm gonna end up with more money in glass on top of it than I have in the upper.
     
  2. bmoore

    bmoore

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    Anything in 22-250 is better. Kinda joking, kinda not. That thing looks way too big and heavy to lug around and my stands are very close to the truck. I think just standard M4 profile guns work fine for hunting and never saw the need for the heavy bull, long barrels. If you are bent on the AR platform for yotes then by all means get what will make you happy. I bought an upper for coyote hunting last year and it never left the truck, always took my 22-250 or 243. Do you have experience with predator calling? Have you taken coyote before?

    223 lags on the other side of 200 yards. I know if you read on the internet enough people will have you thinking that a 5.56 out of 14.5 inch barrel will turn anything into dust at 300 yards but its just not true. Most of the guys I predator call for shoot 223.......here is my experience. Doesnt matter if the dog is hit in the vitals with a Hornady Vmax, pointed soft point or Nosler. They usually jump/spin and take off for 50 to 100 yards and then crump. Sometimes this is ok and sometimes its a pain depending on where your hunting. When hit with a 22-250 or 243 its like you pulled their cord out of the socket, they fold right there. The speed and energy really do make a difference, especially at distance.

    If you are sold on the AR platform by all means get it, it is very accurate, reliable and it will get the job done. Im just not a fan of big heavy rifles of predator calling. And my 22-250 and 243 are my go to rifles. Thats my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012

  3. eclark53520

    eclark53520

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    Agree with Bmoore...

    I don't see the advantage to a Semi-auto yote gun, unless you're just happening on them while working on the farm, and have to attempt to shoot them running.

    Too heavy, too awkward, not enough juice for long shots.

    It will work, no doubt about that, but there are draw backs to that style firearm.
     
  4. mgs

    mgs Always Carrying Millennium Member

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    Yes....too heavy for walking-about, Mike.
     
  5. Brian Lee

    Brian Lee Drop those nuts

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    If you want a varmint rifle, I really don't see any sense in trying to mix that feeling with anything military style. Get a bolt action rifle for varmint shooting & do it right.

    AK's, AR's, and M whatever's are not the gun for everything, and this kind of stuff reminds me of a 4WD truck frame under a Ford Pinto body. Not that I'm saying an AR is a Pinto, but it's just that this is a mixture of two ideas that I don't think go well together.

    If you need bench rest rifle accuracy, an AR is not the gun and a heavy barrel won't turn it into a true bench rest rifle. If all you need to do is hit wild dogs in the *** at 2 or 300 yards then use the AR stock form & skip the needlessly heavy barrel that won't really help anyway.

    Do military snipers do any serious work with heavy barreled converted AR's, or do they use something else - something more like a bolt action?
     
  6. TreyG-20

    TreyG-20 Second2None

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    Does it come with a BCG and CH?
     
  7. vafish

    vafish

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    Guess you haven't seen the sr25 based sniper rifles.

    Or seen what AA heavy barreled ar15 can do. They keep up just fine with off the rack bolt actions.

    Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
     
  8. The Pirate

    The Pirate Grandmaaaaaaa!!!!!!

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    That was a very insightful and thought out post, I appreciate it. I own a few bolt guns. I'm not looking to replace them. I hunt in central Kentucky and if you havn't been around here much, it's mostly hills and hollars. Most of my shots on coyote are from a tractor, atv, or truck at 150 yards or less. When we do actually go hunting, we use a foxpro firestorm and shots are still about the same distance.

    Truth about it, a .243 would hit harder. But, I do have a nice spare lower laying here and need something on it.
    I have 2 lightweight AR's, and the one I'm using right now for this has a M4 barrel and a Trijicon Tri-Power and gets the job done.

    You nailed where I shoot at them the most, on our farm. Could be from the truck or tractor but it's usually when I'm doing something besides hunting that I see them. I've carried everything from lever guns, to bolt guns, to AR's and for me an AR-15 gets the job done good enough and rides good in tractors and on ATV's and I don't have to worry about beating it up a little.

    I've found out exactly that over time. I can shoot a 16" AR with a decent trigger and optics as good as any basic bolt gun I own.

    I appreciate all your guys thoughts and I guess the model 1 upper is as good a choice as any for what I'm doing. I have shot a bull barreled AR before and it seems to soak up a little bit of the recoil. I liked how it felt and I do realize it's a little heavier, but I don't walk a lot with any rifle, it's usually setting in a truck, etc.

    Any more thoughts are welcome, I'm probably not gonna pick one up till the Knob Creek shoot this spring.
     
  9. The Pirate

    The Pirate Grandmaaaaaaa!!!!!!

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    Also forgot, I've probably got 3000+ rounds of .223 around here. Thats a big plus, I can actually afford to shoot an AR.
     
  10. farmer2

    farmer2

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    My experience with .223 has been quite different. I exclusively use a .223 ar-15 for my coyote hunting with hornady v-max bullets. Assuming a solid lung or heart hit, the coyotes I have shot drop instantly. I am no long range shooter, but I have hit several over 300 yards and my furthest was 407yrds. I live on a 1500acre ranch and have shot over 30 in one year. There are obviously more potent coyote calibers, but .223 is so cheap to shoot and reload that it is an excellent choice in my opinion.


    farmer2
     
  11. bmoore

    bmoore

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    More times than not for me they do the jump/spin take off a little ways dance. I have seen one dump on the spot that was about 130 yards with a Vmax, but I have seen them inside of 80 yards do the dance. I understand 223 is probably the most popular cartridge for yotes, Im just partial to my 22-250. Would I hunt with my AR? In a heart beat, in fact I have taken a couple with a regular old iron site M4; but you will not catch me with an 18-24 inch bull barrel AR.
     
  12. farmer2

    farmer2

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    I agree that a heavy profile barrel is unnecessary. My first ar-15 was a bushmaster Hbar that shot just under 1moa. My current coyote gun is a BCM midlength with a 16" barrel. It actually shoots a little better than the bushmaster. ar-15's are so accurate in the most basic configuration that it really is unecessary to add the extra weight. I think this conversation has inspired me to go pick off a coyote tomorrow morning before work!

    farmer2
     
  13. Brian Lee

    Brian Lee Drop those nuts

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    Or maybe people just have different standards of what a "good" bolt action rifle should do, vs someone else's standard of what an "off the rack" rifle is expected to do. When I'm thinking about varmint rifles I'm not talking about being happy with cheap (or simply overpriced) bolt action crap that some might refer to as "off the rack", (some come off the rack a lot better than others) nor would I be impressed with rifles that need to be compared to that low standard to come out ahead.

    The truth about what dominates long range competitions is what it is, and it isn't AR's with fat barrels. I see AR's as a rifle that can nicely do the job formerly done by lever actions - lever guns can have scopes & be pretty accurate too - but the bolt action still rules in it's particular world & at the longest ranges, and especially on groundhog day.
     
  14. bmoore

    bmoore

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    Lol!, go nail one! My dad and I were literally just talking about this on our way back from the desert shooting range. AR's shoot so accurate it is ridiculous. I built him just a basic 20" A2 for christmas with a plane jane DPMS 20" A2 upper on it and that gun lays them in there. I like the style of your coyote gun. I just put together a midlength lightweight PSA rifle kit and shot it today. What a shooter, light and balances very well.
     
  15. bmoore

    bmoore

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    OP sounds like you have a good idea what you want and how to get there with the experience to match. Good luck with your new stick! Post pics when you get it buttoned up. I also use a Foxpro (FX3), gotta love those things. Last October down in the desert I had one come into the call inside of 30 seconds on prarie dog distress.
     
  16. The Pirate

    The Pirate Grandmaaaaaaa!!!!!!

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    I appreciate it! It's gonna be a couple months probably, but I'll definitely post a pic. As I said earlier, I have 2 m4 style rifles so I don't need another one. I know I don't need it, but the bull barrel will make it a little different from my others and I'll get to use my spare lower.

    Foxpro's are badass. I think everbody needs one, hunter or not :supergrin: I've found most of the time if we don't call something out pretty quick, we usually won't see much that evening.
     
  17. Teecher45

    Teecher45

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    Looks great. If that is what I wanted then I would get it and shoot the crap out of it.
    We live on a farm in W. KY and never pass up the chance to "Protect the cattle".
    As far as a .223 on a coyote, I have shot them with 75 gr TAP's, A-MAX, in AR's and .243 and 30/06 in bolts. Just like shooting deer, bear, elk, or anything I guess. There is no magic bullet. Some have been hit well and ran, some dropped like a rock.
    Dunno...
    Just shoot them in the vitals and go find them.
     
  18. FreakyBig

    FreakyBig Massive Member

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    I've got the same upper and it is too heavy for anything other than bench shooting. I definitely would not want to lug it around the woods. It has a 10x SS on it until I can afford NightForce glass.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  19. faawrenchbndr

    faawrenchbndr CLM

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    Come on Fellas,,.........a bull barrel AR15 is NOT to heavy to
    carry for varmint hunting!

    Out Fore Fathers lugged around 11 LBS+ M1 Garands all over the planet!

    We, as a generation, need to harden the F' up and hit the gym!


    P.S.

    A 20" Varmint barreled RRA upper would make a sweet coyote
    getter out to 350m+
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  20. NEOH212

    NEOH212 Diesel Girl

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    I like my Bushmaster predator. Fairly light and super accurate with the 75 grain BTHP ammo!