US Secret Service Going To 9mm Glocks...

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by El Viajero, Aug 3, 2019.

  1. Lt Scott 14

    Lt Scott 14

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    Just a dumb question. Which Glock will be carried? G45, G17, G19, G26, etc. I thought FBI did a G17M? No finger grooves like a Gen5?
     
  2. TacticalDesire

    TacticalDesire

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    Penetration and expansion between .357 sig and 9mm are the same. People wank off to 357 sig because of the highly touted but never substantiated muzzle energy. And any body armor that stops 9mm stops 357sig. Every set I've ever been issued, including sets going back to the 90s has been rated for 357 sig. The set I have now is even rated for 5.7.

    Modern ammo IS designed for barriers in mind. That is why we have bonded bullets and exactly why 147grn Speer G2 and Hornady Critical Duty 135gr came to be.

    And again, the SS has much more firepower at their disposal for vehicle born threats. You're acting like G19s is all they have with them. Not the case.
     
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  3. TacticalDesire

    TacticalDesire

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    G19 and G47.
     
  4. Lt Scott 14

    Lt Scott 14

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    Thank you TacticalDesire!
     
  5. G26-Has-my-6

    G26-Has-my-6

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    G19 and G47 MOS. Red dots will used in the future.
     
  6. troysglock

    troysglock Member

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    The anti 9mm folks are starting to sound like # NeverTrumpers. #nevernine could be their slogan.
     
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  7. boilergonzo

    boilergonzo

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    Thanks for the info.

    And I do get that they aren't just toting a single gun to address threats. I even specifically stated "As I noted earlier, this is probably only one prong of the strategy, and they have 5.7 armor piercing also tucked in their jackets to thwart more hardened targets.", as a potential example, adn the PS90, H&K MP5's and others have been pointed out as options available to them, in addition to folks with rifles. I know they have various plans (I know local SRT in Indy, and have seen photos of the sniper nests in the Super Bowl, and know they have means to protect the Indy 500 and key individuals when they visit, including many well-positioned snipers, helicopters, guarded overpasses, special vehicles, etc. I don't know the details or the specific tactics, but I know it is an insanely complex process to transport and protect a VP or President!

    For low recoil and potential penetrating power, there remain options that could (could, not saying they ARE) be better. A 5.7 comes to mind as one possible option. Cost would be a huge detractor, obviously. But it is a very soft shooter, if follow up shots and having a soft shooter is the main objective, it checks all the boxes for that! I am fine with 9mm, and I am fine with them switching from 357SIG. Don't care in the least. I am just curious why it was decided.

    In the same bullet weights, a bullet moving faster will penetrate a bit better (357SIG > 9mm, even if marginally... basic physics). If it was worth the switch UP years ago from 9mm, switching back DOWN now is just a notable change in choice. While bonded ammo can help penetrate hard materials, more powerful ammo going even faster with similar bonding would be better. Certainly depleted uranium tips and other extremes can even start punching holes in significant chunks of steel...

    I don't think caliber is usually the critical factor, despite all the conversations about it on forums. I am merely fascinated by how our government selects things, and the changes in the direction of the logic employed. If penetrating barriers is important, rifles and bigger calibers have advantages. If low recoil is important, 9mm or 5.7 may be perfect.

    To me, it kinda smells more like justification of "wants" as opposed to "needs". If you want a change, you have to make a case. If someone wanted the SIG's gone, and wanted to move to Glock's, you have to have a reason to justify the swap. Low cost and easier to shoot can make a case. Were they struggling that badly in shooting the 357SIG?!?

    The law enforcement force guys can offer their insight, but 357SIG and 9mm aren't so different. One shoots a little softer, one hits a little harder, but we are not comparing .22lr and .500S&W. After 9mm failed in Miami, folks begged for more penetration. This decision goes the opposite direction, and throttles back a bit. It is all fine, just doesn't feel completely based in science and fact. It feels more like preferences, and the mood of the folks in power has shifted back to 9mm. It is like the Air Marshals justifying 357SIG over 9mm, or shifting from Beretta's to the SIG 320. The arguments for it seemed fairly insubstantial. The net result is switching costs born by the taxpayer (for something that isn't universally accepted as the best plan). We sometimes switch for marginal (and sometimes disputed) reasons. Perhaps 9mm solves many problems, but it is a minor step down in power (after taxpayers paying to go UP in power a couple decades ago, and flirting with 10mm, then .40S&W, etc.). Ammo will cost less. Gun will hold more ammo. Switching will cost money. Training for the switch will cost more money. The math is all quite fuzzy and inconsistent!

    In the end, I hope the Secret Service (and LEO's everywhere) end up with a reliable platform they are happy and comfortable with. Ultimately, I want our good guys armed with the guns, armor, and tools to best protect them while they do the very difficult task of enforcing our laws and keeping us and our society safe.

    If 9mm handguns are part of that equation, great! If it is a bit of a luxury (providing a slightly tool better than the bare minimum to provide added moral support and comfort) I am also completely supportive of that! Keep the good guys armed and fully supported. Stay safe!
     
  8. Quigley

    Quigley Elite Member

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    They've invested their egos in their calibers and I get it. An ego is a hard thing to let go. I was a .40 guy for a long time. I dont even own a .40 any more.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     
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  9. MrGlock21

    MrGlock21

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    in combo with Glock 18
     
  10. quantico

    quantico 1911 lover Millennium Member

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    You dont think velocity is any part of a rounds performance envelope ??

    300 ultramag different than 308 despite the same bullet..

    10mm more powerful than .40 in the same bullet weight.
    Its just physics.. bullet diameter. Bullet weight. Bullet speed are all interactive with the result.

    Throw a brick made of styrofoam or a real brick at the same speed and the brick does a lot more damage. The 357 sig at 75 yards has more energy than 9mm at the muzzle. It just does.

    People seem like 9mm has become some odd religion of its as great as anything else.. weight and speed is everything.. get hit on your bike by a suburban .. or get hit by a yugo.. there is a lot of energy difference.

    Tired of people acting crazy and getting all insulted because they dont understand energy. Carry a 22 short or a lite .380. I dont care.

    Back decades ago i was taught to carry the largest most powerful cartridge handgun that i could shoot accurately at a reasonable speed. I do that.
     
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  11. shadowlands

    shadowlands

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    And you helped talk me into switching over to 9mm. And even thought we would argue a couple time a week, I thank you for the help in me making that move.
    Gosh, I was nice to you again! Ughhhhhh
     
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  12. TacticalDesire

    TacticalDesire

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    Yes, it does have more energy, nobody is arguing that. What I said was, penetration and expansion are the same. I never said anything about velocity.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COVoBwR1oww



    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kLkpIljrNA


    I have yet to see a valid argument for why energy transfer matters in common use service calibers. Because it doesn't.

    So. For the same TERMINAL performance, I am going to take the round that is cheaper, easier to shoot and gives me more capacity. Which is what the SS did as well.

    And before anyone says "bUt iTs gEl". Stop. Real life performance is the same. Examiners can't tell a lick of difference and if the SS and other agencies thought that switching was going to get their agents and officers killed. They would't have switched. The SS and other .gov agencies can buy whatever they want. I'm not a 9mm apologist either. I just use logic.

    This isn't the 80s.

    Also, using your own analogy, the difference isn't getting hit by a bike vs suburban. It's like comparing getting hit with a Huffy vs a Schwinn. It's going to do the same to the person on the receiving end. Or getting hit by a F-150 vs a Silverado. Again, the person on the receiving end isn't going to know the difference the end result is the same
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
  13. stavey

    stavey

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    Must’ve gotten a good deal
     
  14. cheygriz

    cheygriz God Bless Trump

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    MetaL guns will go away because people are starting to realize that they are yesterday's technology.

    I love my SIG P226. but if SIG were to offer an identical gun with a polymer frame, I'd trade in a split second.
     
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  15. quantico

    quantico 1911 lover Millennium Member

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    I prefer metal and wood guns.. from 1911's to 03 springfields.

    If your lifetime of shooting is going to be 2000 rounds and you dont really understand maintaining a gun very well a glock will be awesome for you. But the keltec or sccy or ruger will be about the same gun made of the same stuff.. so cheaper is better will continue to evolve. I hope when polymer barrels with metal coated barrels come out they are perfect for you.
     
  16. TacticalDesire

    TacticalDesire

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    [​IMG]
     
  17. gatorboy

    gatorboy ( . Y . )

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    It's pretty nice
    2022 is it. It has a better DA trigger than a 226. It's really closer to a 229 but I'd choose a 229 over 226 for carry and a 2022 over a 229. If for HD/range, steel is pretty nice.
     
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  18. cheygriz

    cheygriz God Bless Trump

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    I think that Glock and SIG have proven beyond a doubt that polymer and fiberglass will outlast metal and wood.
     
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  19. TacticalDesire

    TacticalDesire

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    Seriously. It's been 50 years since the VP70 and almost 40 since the first Glock. You'd think it's proven itself by now.
     
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  20. cheygriz

    cheygriz God Bless Trump

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    They have proven themselves. But the disciples of Elmer Kieth and "Goofie Jeffie" Cooper will never accept anything that their "gurus" didn't approve of.