Update the Concorde ?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by aircarver, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. aircarver

    aircarver Descent Terminated Silver Member

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    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...irbus-files-plans-for-new-supersonic-jet.html

    The new jet could fly from London to New York in an hour - opening up the possibility of a transatlantic return journey in a day.

    Concorde 2 would be capable of flying more than four times the speed of sound – or more than 2,500mph, according to documents lodged with the US Patent Office by the aerospace and defence group.

    The filings refer to an “ultra-rapid air vehicle” and “method of aerial locomotion” for the aircraft, which would cruise at an altitude of more than 100,000ft and carry up to 20 passengers or two or three tons of cargo for distances of about 5,500 miles.

    According to the patent, power would come from three different types of engines:

    • “at least one” conventional jet that could be retracted into the fuselage

    • one or more ramjets, which use the forward speed of the aircraft to compress the air entering them before it is mixed with fuel and ignited

    • a rocket motor powered by hydrogen and oxygen.


    They appear to be overlooking the technical challenges in the specs they provided, and the economic one, that torpedoed the first 'Concorde' ... :upeyes:
     
  2. G19Tony

    G19Tony Sneet CLM

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    It would be cool to do it. But I don't think it would make any money.
     

  3. willie_pete

    willie_pete NRA Life Member

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    One definition of insanity: doing the same thing and expect different results.

    I also like the rocket motor thing; nothing can go wrong with hydrogen and oxygen.

    wp
     
  4. SC Tiger

    SC Tiger As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

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    That will be the one hurdle that this will not be able to overcome - economics.
     
  5. aircarver

    aircarver Descent Terminated Silver Member

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    :supergrin:
     
  6. Khufu

    Khufu Pharaoh

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    Fuel consumption.

    Modern passenger jets use less fuel per passenger mile than a car.

    The upper limit on transatlantic premium flights is probably in the range of $15k.

    An airplane needs to be profitable at that price for a seat.
     
  7. ddbtoth

    ddbtoth

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    Get some government types (buy them) to support it and call it Amtrak II, never get rid of it then.
     
  8. aircarver

    aircarver Descent Terminated Silver Member

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    Air France would probably overlook profitability to promote 'national pride' ....

    .... But this beast would likely eat even them out of house and home ... :wow:
     
  9. railfancwb

    railfancwb

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    According to some folks, passenger airlines as a whole have never made a profit. Yeah, some have for a time, but then have gone belly up. Southwest may be the only stateside airline which has never gone through the bankruptcy wringer.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. Rizzo

    Rizzo Garbage Day!

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    :wow: at the specs... I think I'd feel safer at the paltry ~500mph @30,000 feet that the commercial planes are currently flying.
     
  11. Adjuster

    Adjuster

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    Will they or are there plans to build at least one?


    /
     
  12. tous

    tous GET A ROPE!

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    I see that we have a bunch of economists here and not scientists or engineers.
    If Airbus can fund the development, they need to build it. They need to fly it.

    What was the cost per mile of Mercury, Gemini and Apollo? Or the Shuttle? Or the SR-71? Or the Wright Flyer, the Curtis Jenny or the Spirit of St. Louis?

    What they will learn, what we all will learn by building and flying a such a supersonic aircraft will be used to build and fly a hypersonic aircraft and maybe, an FTL aircraft. You don't weigh what can be done by how many pennies will return. Mankind (sorry wimmins) humankind moves ahead not because it's profitable, but because we can and must.
     
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  13. Tvov

    Tvov

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    How can you make money with only 20 passengers? Sure, it will be fully booked for awhile until the novelty of it wears off.

    I only know two people who flew on the Concorde (my Dad and a friend's dad). They both said it was fun and interesting... to do once. It was small, tight, loud, lots of vibration... not really a relaxing flight. Not worth it to them to do again for the cost and uncomfortable flight, just to save a few hours.
     
  14. Bruce M

    Bruce M

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    My guess is it might not be difficult to fill one each way each day on the Atlantic. I am guessing depending on the price there could be a market for 10 or 20 passengers a day or a couple tons of cargo even at a high price. It would not shock me that there are say 10 private jets that fly each way a day on average. But I admit that is just a guess My other guess is that even with something like this economy would be developed with a certain production number and I am thinking it might be hard to fill a few hundred of these daily.
     
  15. aircarver

    aircarver Descent Terminated Silver Member

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    This engineer worked on the 'Space Plane' and saw the many hair curling problems associated with it ... :alex:

    NOT really ready to put paying passengers on it ...

    I also watched, with an enthusiast's eye, the efforts of a group of aviation enthusiasts to make a go of the Concorde. The industry is just like trucking .... defaults to the lowest cost/ ton-mile ... Ergo, we got a fleet of pax liners stuck on mach .82, and a fleet of cargo 747s flying tonnage around slower than that. The costs do you in.

    Spaceship 2 showed us this is not a benign realm for passengers.

    Airbus is gonna go broke developing a NEO A-380 for Emirates, nobody else will be buying them.
     
  16. tous

    tous GET A ROPE!

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    I understand, but I have to disagree with you.

    The SST program was 40 years ago. We know more now.

    What was the cost per subscriber to the telephone system in 1901? There were few wires and it was very expensive. Run the numbers and give it up?

    My first computer a TRS-80, cost somewhere around $2,000.00 in 1980 dollars. No way that a desktop computer could ever be successful, right? No one could afford them. No further development needed, it just wasn't wise.

    If we stop developing now, we're done. We stagnate, lose the zest for discovery and accomplishment, tell the dreamers it's not cost effective and then look to government or the king for succor.

    Engineers solve problems, that's what we do. If it's a cost per unit problem, we solve it, we don't turn away.
     
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  17. fiveoboy01

    fiveoboy01

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    All I know is I thought the A350 was really cool!

    I think I'm ok with staying at 35000 feet.
     
  18. G19Tony

    G19Tony Sneet CLM

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    I agree, my friend. They should build it and fly it. I hope they do. The value of the research alone would be worth it. But, if they are going into it to make a profit. I don't think they will be happy. I'd love to be proved wrong. And, if they need a pilot, I'd be happy to do it. :cowboy:
     
  19. G19Tony

    G19Tony Sneet CLM

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    Can you go to Wichita and help Cessna. They have a cost per unit problem. $250K for a 172 is crazy, especially since the design is almost 60 years old. If they could sell them for $50K, they wouldn't be able to build them fast enough. :dancingbanana:
     
  20. aircarver

    aircarver Descent Terminated Silver Member

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    I get where you're coming from .... "Onward and upward ... Reach must exceed grasp .... Asteroids are nature's way of saying we gotta get off this planet" .... :supergrin:

    But my engineering perspective is of 'things that break on aircraft [and spacecraft]' and while we need to move forward, solving the problems that will clear the way for commercial operations is going to take much longer than the dreamers think ...