Unreliable Glock 17C firing

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by Samc, Aug 5, 2005.

Tags:
  1. Samc

    Samc

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Hi all,
    I'm new to the list and have browsed to see if someone has had similar problems to me, but have not seen anything. I have a Generation 3 17C that just recently started jamming. It appears that the slide is not moving all the way to the rear of the gun on discharge and is a) catching the jacket of the round in the clip and wedging it or b) not stopping open after the last round has ejected.

    I've talked to a few people and have heard things ranging from:
    1) I'm limp wristing the gun and absorbing the kinetic energy the slide uses to travel all the way to the rear of the gun
    2) The gun is dirty creating drag which does not allow the slide to go all the way to the rear
    3) The gun is not properly lubricated creating drag like #2
    4) The compensation reduces pressure to the slide making it 'less-effective' at traveling to the rear of the frame on discharge - implying that the Ported models are somehow more susceptible to this style of jam

    Given Glocks reputation, I'm less inclined to believe options #3 and #4. The gun is dirty after firing some 200 rounds flawlessly last weekend but I wouldn't have expected the guns reliability to falter after a paltry 200 rounds, so I'm not so inclined to believe #2. I took it to the range after resting from last weekend and 'firmed up' my grip and still had the same problem (in theory) negating option #1.

    Had anyone heard of this or can anyone substantiate any of the opinions I've gotten? I of course hear the same mantra of 'stay away from reloads and cheap ammo' - but what is considered 'good' ammo? I can buy $1/rd ammo, but that seems ridiculous. What does everyone else shoot when you're going out for a weekend and want to blow off a few hundred rounds?
    Thanks for the help guys!
    -Sam
     
  2. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

    Messages:
    20,139
    Likes Received:
    426
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 1998
    Location:
    Stuarts Draft, Virginia
    Limp Wristing has nothing whatsoever to do with macho grip strength. It is any hand, wrist, arm, elbow, shoulder movement while firing the pistol. The G17C loses about 3% of muzzle velocity due to porting, making it more susceptable to movement. I suggest you try some Blazer 124-gr FMJ practice ammo.
     

  3. Mail Clerk

    Mail Clerk

    Messages:
    401
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2004
    Location:
    Los Angeles California

    Sam,

    I have many Glock in my battery that aren't ported but I can say you issue is rare indeed.

    My wild guess is that your limp wristing the pistol during the firing sequence. In you first paragraph you mentioned that the slide stop isn't engaging. I'd check your magazine follower to see it the followers not touching the lever.

    Can you tell us what kind of ammo your using? I'd start with FMJ ammo as a base line and move to exotics later-on. My only other guess is that your shooting ammo that's lightly charged. Stick to military style/type ammo.

    Mail Clerk
     
  4. DJ Niner

    DJ Niner Moderator

    Messages:
    17,448
    Likes Received:
    3,416
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Location:
    North-Central USA
    Some ammo is "dirtier" than other ammo. Clean and lube the gun before shooting again, paying special attention to the grooves in the slide where the frame slide rails ride. Use a cleaning brush, then Q-tip or folded corner of a patch/rag to get all the way to the bottom of the grooves. You might be surprised at what kind of built-up crud is in there. Then lightly lube it and try again with the same ammo. Let us know what happens.
     
  5. Glock4Life

    Glock4Life

    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Location:
    Iowa
    I vote for installing a lighter recoil spring. Sounds like borderline stovepipes to me, potentially due to limpwristing, I must agree. If that were the case then it's time to revisit proper form with arms outstretched firmly and solidly and NOT allowing the wrists to hinge rearward so much as letting the arms, wrists and weapon absorb it together in one, hopefully minimal and unified effort. If your technique is good then the spring becomes an even more clear answer IMO. Using a little stiffer ammo will serve the same function but why not go with a spring that will allow the shooting of whatever you have at the time?
     
  6. Glock-N-Fun

    Glock-N-Fun

    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Use 124gr.bullet with higher powder factor,or use a ss guide rod with a 15lb.ISMI spring.Anyone that reloads differant powder factor levels will fine tune the cycleing of the slide by useing differant weight springs.
     
  7. Samc

    Samc

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Wow guys - Thanks for the ton of input! I think I have a lot to think about now.. ;) I don't recall off hand what the particular Ammo I was shooting. I do recall it was in factory boxes, but I certainly understand that not all ammo is created equal. I'm going to get a chance to go out here this week sometime I hope, and I'll pay very close attention to the ammo I shoot. If I get the same results, I'll clean the gun paying close attention to the above areas (only want to change one thing at a time) and then I'll try again, leaving the light spring and shooting re-loads/exotics, etc. for later on down the road. Thanks again for all the advice and I'll let you guys know how it turns out!
    -Sam
     
  8. Deputy71

    Deputy71

    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Location:
    Pittsylvania County (Danville), Va.
    Just my opinion but every firearm should be cleaned and lubed, (1)when new, (2) every month (I do mine every two weeks), (3) every time it is fired, (4) and any other time it is needed (being in rain, dusty environment, high humidity etc.)

    May not realy be required, but I have followed this rule for 50 years and have never had a gun that didn't go bang when I pulled the trigger.

    BTW, it doesn't take many rounds to start causing problems. On my Baretta 92fs, when shooting dirty ammo (winchester white box) it gets dirty enough after about 50 rounds that the slide doesn't lock back after the last round.


    :soap:

    Good luck.
     
  9. Glock-N-Fun

    Glock-N-Fun

    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    If you don't lighten up on the recoil spring weight when useing a ported barrel,or a barrel with a comp when useing standard factory PF ammo your just spinning your wheels.
     
  10. Samc

    Samc

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Okay, I know this may sound silly and all, but I've heard a few conflicting opinions on cleaning and lubing Glocks in particular.
    1) I've heard that they are 'the most durable & rugged' guns around - many desert/water/ice/mud tests have proven this. Keeping in mind that physics dictate some things, how can any of these legends be even close to accurate if my problems are coming from 'a bit of gunpowder grit'?
    and:
    2) I've heard that Glocks are so sensitive to lubrication that many people clean them and re-assemble them dry or with one or two dabs of oil as to not 'soften' the frame or create a muddy environment for grime to build up. What is the real story on lubrication with a Glock?

    Thanks again for the excellent forum - I appreciate all the advice!
    -Sam
     
  11. Samc

    Samc

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    okay - more 'newbie' questions - I'm sorry if this sounds dumb, but I really can't quite figure this out. I mean, I understand the lighter the spring, the more the barrel moves, etc - what I can't get is:

    A) Glock 17C is compensated to reduce 'barrel flip' and recoil
    B) Due to this compensation, a lighter spring is reccommended
    C) Lighter spring gets installed, creating more slide movememt and greater inertia to force the slide to move all the way to the rear of the frame
    D) Greater slide movement/inertia creates additional recoil

    Doesn't the lighter spring negate the effect of the compensation or am I missing something here?
    -Sam
     
  12. Mark L Miller

    Mark L Miller

    Messages:
    930
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    May 6, 2001
    Location:
    Texas
    The lighter spring will complement the effect of the porting. Think about this--which do you think you can resist better,the movement of the slide straight back or the movement of the muzzle, tilting up because of a stiff spring? Which one has the most leverage on your hands? I say let the slide move straight back. The porting issue isn't addressed exactly but take a look at www.customglockracing.com in Matt's tech articles. There is an article on "spring wars" that might help you understand.
    I will echo what others have said, though, it is probably limp wristing. Something is giving, elbows, wrists, shoulders, something. Try the hotter blazer ammo that DannyR suggested. That is definitely not exotic ammo, by any means. You know, cci blazer, the aluminum stuff. The stuff costs $3.85 a box here at Academy sports. It is fairly hot stuff but accurate & reliable. Good luck, MLM
     
  13. Glock-N-Fun

    Glock-N-Fun

    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Mark L Miller,

    Good post
     
  14. Mark L Miller

    Mark L Miller

    Messages:
    930
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    May 6, 2001
    Location:
    Texas
    :) Thank you glock-n-fun!
     
  15. Samc

    Samc

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Yes, very good post. I'll definatly look at ammo as soon as I can, but I'm just trying to gather as much information as I can before I go out :) Thanks for answering my questions! I had no idea about the custom glock racing website - it looks like there is a lot of good information there. I think I know where I'm going to be spending some time very soon now ;) I'm still kinda new to all of this. Thanks for being patient with me. I'll report back when I try some of these things.
    -Sam
     
  16. Glock-N-Fun

    Glock-N-Fun

    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Sam,

    Basically,when some of the gas's behind the bullet exit the ports the pressure that helps push the slide to the rear is reduced,if the spring is to heavy for the reduction in pressure your slide will short stroke.If the blazer that Mark suggested doesn't do the trick,and/or you would like to use and standard off the shelf ammo,just go to a 15lb.spring,I like Aro-Tek Rods and ISMI springs.
     
  17. Samc

    Samc

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    I wasn't able to locate any of the 124gr blazer up here (will look more when I get home) but I was able to find some Winchester 124gr. Would you expect I'd get the same/similar results testing with it?
    Thanks!
    -Sam
     
  18. Glock-N-Fun

    Glock-N-Fun

    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Samc,

    If you haven't used a 124gr.bullet yet,it may do the trick,however,i would still use a 15lb.ISMI anyway,which is what i use in a G-17 and G-19,both non-comp's.
     
  19. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

    Messages:
    20,139
    Likes Received:
    426
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 1998
    Location:
    Stuarts Draft, Virginia
    Sam,

    Once you get accustomed to shooting your G17C using a proper two-handed grip and stance, the ammo will make little if any difference.

    I use very low powered reloads in my compensated 9mm Glocks and have no problems whatsoever with the stock springs.