close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Universal background check question

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by gwalchmai, Feb 4, 2013.

  1. Z71bill

    Z71bill

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    16,973
    Likes Received:
    4,417
    Location:
    Texas
    How about -

    If you show me a CHL (or GBC) - I have a safe harbor against any prosecution or civil liability - if the gun I sell is later used in a "bad:upeyes:" way.

    :dunno:
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  2. Z71bill

    Z71bill

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    16,973
    Likes Received:
    4,417
    Location:
    Texas
    Why do we wait for "them" to propose anything?

    We are always playing defence.

    I don't care how good your team is - if you are always playing defence you will always lose in the end - you can never win.

    I am using the CHL as an example - you would need another / additional method. I called it a GBC (gun buying card).

    Not understanding the Brady law - if my CHL avoids a BGC or not is state law. Are you talking about state laws the Brady bunch has gotten passed?

    Screw them - let them explain why I have to pass a BGC every time I buy a gun. I have already passed dozens of them - how does passing one more to buy my 21ST (whatever) gun provide any positive impact?

    Make them come out and admit they want complete registration - prevent them from hiding behind the universal BGC / gun show loop hole spin BS.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013

  3. whoflungdo

    whoflungdo

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,412
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    MS
    As has been pointed out several times. You can require everyone you sale to to have a FFL background check and make the transfer there. That is your choice now. Forcing everyone else to handle transaction the way you want will do nothing to stop crime and reduce felons from getting weapons. You are concentrating on a small fraction of people unknowingly selling a legally owned weapon to a felon/mentally ill person. You are advocating for a larger more intrusive government and cannot show where it would have stopped one of the recent tragedies or prevented a prohibited person from buying a firearm in a face to face transaction. You then use the strawman argument that it cannot be showed to you it has never happened. That wasn't the argument and is only a deflection by you.

    How about you do all your transaction via an FFL? Then you have no cause to worry. You seem to want a law to force you to do what you think is right, rather than voluntarily doing it yourself. I'm not arguing if its right or wrong. I'm just arguing you already have in place what you wish for for yourself.
     
  4. whoflungdo

    whoflungdo

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,412
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    MS
    Because they will never come out and admit that. It is giving them small incremental victories in restricting my rights and building a larger more intrusive government. Why would you want to give them more control when you know it won't stop crime?
     
  5. Z71bill

    Z71bill

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    16,973
    Likes Received:
    4,417
    Location:
    Texas
    I don't -

    I want them to have less control.

    Requiring ME to pass one BGC every - say 3 years - and then not requiring another every time I buy a gun - allowing me to have guns shipped to my home with no FFL involvement - even from dealers out of state -

    All expand my rights.

    I have already agreed that this change will hurt some -

    If you never purchase a gun from a FFL dealer - have never gotten a CHL - you would have the added burden of filling out a form (similar to a 4473) sending it in with $15 and waiting a month to get your GBC in the mail.

    Then you can go buy all the guns you want in the next 3 years with no added paperwork. :banana:

    :dunno:

    Allowing the anti gun groups to keep us in a corner and chip away at our rights is not a great solution either.

    I say go on offense.

    Propose a new system that logically does some good - while expanding the rights of average law abiding Joe citizen.

    If the anti gun types want to block it make them explain why?

    Don't you want a check to prevent a crazy person from buying a gun using the "gun show loop hole:upeyes:"?

    Why do you want to restrict a person that already passed a BGC from buying a second gun?

    Put them on defense for a change.

    Control the discussion and push back. :supergrin:
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  6. whoflungdo

    whoflungdo

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,412
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    MS
    Do you honestly believe that is part of any current or pending legislation? By supporting UBC you ARE giving them more control.

    Again, not part of any current or purposed legislation. This will not happen.


    How is that done by supporting a UBC?

    ETA: What you allow one legislative body to grant, another can take away by passing another law and/or removing an existing law.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  7. gwalchmai

    gwalchmai Lucky Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    26,378
    Likes Received:
    4,308
    Location:
    Outside the perimeter
    Never begin a negotiation with a concession. And never negotiate rights.
     
  8. whoflungdo

    whoflungdo

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,412
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    MS

    Bingo!
     
  9. Z71bill

    Z71bill

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    16,973
    Likes Received:
    4,417
    Location:
    Texas
    Which is a big part of the problem in Washington.

    All ideology - limited substance.

    How else do you negotiate anything - say you want to buy a car?

    So you say. I want that new car -

    Sales guy says - great I would love to sell it to you for $29,000

    You say. I don't want to give up anything - I just want the car. :rofl:

    You need to propose what you want - and what you will pay.

    Or

    Is it better to just sit and play defense?


    Be against everything - even if it could help keep guns out of the hands of crazy people.

    Part of the fight is appearance. If you try and engage in a reasonable way - with real solutions you can control public opinion. End up with a better overall system that actually does some good - at a lower cost.

    When some anti gun person asks a pro gun member of congress.

    Do you think we should require background checks on private sales so a criminally insane drug addict can not buy a gun at a gun show?

    They say what.

    I am against background checks that will keep guns way from crazy people. :embarassed:

    Then we wonder why we get labeled as gun nuts.

    If you never negotiate rights then

    How will we ever get back any of the rights that has already been lost?

    :dunno:
     
  10. dbcooper

    dbcooper

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    1,138
    Likes Received:
    2
    You start with a demand, like an end to gun free zones, never start by giving anything.
     
  11. Z71bill

    Z71bill

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    16,973
    Likes Received:
    4,417
    Location:
    Texas
    You control the discussion by taking some action VS sitting on the sideline waiting for them to attack.

    You control the discussion by gaining support with voters by offering real solutions to the problem.

    BTW - I don't support UBC.

    I am willing to accept them (without registration) as long as I get other stuff in return that is worth more to me.

    No other stuff - no background checks --

    Try this --

    Which gun laws do you dislike the most? (besides the background check:upeyes:)

    Give me your top 3

    Would you trade these for requiring UBC?
     
  12. Z71bill

    Z71bill

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    16,973
    Likes Received:
    4,417
    Location:
    Texas

    Then what?

    I say --

    OK I am willing to eliminate gun free zones if you allow UBC.

    Is this any different that saying.

    I would consider changes to the BC system if we can get rid of these gun free zones.

    ---------------
    I have a car for sale you want it.

    How would you buy it from me using your make a demand system of negotiation?

    Really - what is your opening statement.

    I want your car! :rofl:
     
  13. somebodybuymeaglock

    somebodybuymeaglock

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    363
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Mississippi Gulf Coast
    The gov can and does snatch private property for fun, why not guns?
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  14. whoflungdo

    whoflungdo

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,412
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    MS
    You really have no idea how the anti's work do you? Nothing is being traded. They take. Giving up a right either in whole or in part is not a compromise. Name me one time "gun control" legislation has been passed where they "allowed" us to have our "rights" back. The government doesn't grant us rights. They only take them away via legislation.

    Your analogy of the car purchase is another bad example you like to keep throwing out. The negotiation is I have money you have the car. I am willing to pay x for x and you negotiate from there. Both of you are free to make a deal or walk away with what you brought to the table. Please explain how that works with negotiating our rights away.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  15. Z71bill

    Z71bill

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    16,973
    Likes Received:
    4,417
    Location:
    Texas
    You seem to think we can just be against everything and our rights will stay where they are now.

    How has that been working for us - say over the last 25 years?

    I want money (end of gun free zones, reduce restrictions of inter state transfer of guns, reduction in the number of background checks - one check is good for 3 years, elimination of FFL in online sales)

    You want a car (universal back ground checks, gun registration, ban semi autos, limit mag capacity)

    Same thing - negotiation is getting something and giving up something.

    :dunno:
     
  16. whoflungdo

    whoflungdo

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,412
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    MS
    Are you being obtuse? I have money and want a car. I can walk away with my money if I don't like the car, the price, or the salesman or for any other reason. How can I walk away with my gun free zones, reduction in background checks, etc if I don't like what the other side is offering? The analogy isn't even in the same zip code, let alone the same ball park.
     
  17. gwalchmai

    gwalchmai Lucky Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    26,378
    Likes Received:
    4,308
    Location:
    Outside the perimeter
    Our rights have been disappearing because we've been negotiating them away.
     
  18. whoflungdo

    whoflungdo

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,412
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    MS

    Bingo! again...
     
  19. Z71bill

    Z71bill

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    16,973
    Likes Received:
    4,417
    Location:
    Texas
    Its is exactly the same thing.


    the anti members of congress have something the pro gun members want

    the pro gun members have something the anti gun members want

    Same as every law that gets passed - some things are given up to get other things.

    By not taking the initiative in the past and trying to offer real solutions that would keep guns away from crazy people - and instead waiting until some nut shoots 20 1ST graders was a mistake.

    If we offer real solutions and changes to existing laws (like I am offering:whistling:) and the anti's say NO WAY we only want to reduce your rights and give up nothing in return.

    FINE - the negotiation fails.

    At least we come off like reasonable people willing to work on real solutions to real problems VS made to look like a bunch of nuts that resist keeping guns out of the hands of crazy people.

    It is the same thing with immigration and tax increases but that is a whole other thing.

    :wavey:
     
  20. whoflungdo

    whoflungdo

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,412
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    MS
    Reasonable people do not offer something they know will not and has been proven not to work. That's what the definition of insanity is. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.