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Union members, help me understand something.

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by jutland, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. jutland

    jutland

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    Teamsters knew from their press release a few days before the Hostess strike deadline that Hostess was not bluffing, as the Teamsters had seen the company books. Bakers union didn't see it that way. Why didn't teamsters basically advise its workers, to whom it owes a duty, to go back to work and cross a picket line created by a less sophisticated and less informed union?

    I mean, I have always presumed union members to be lazy and without a grasp of how to stand on individual merit. I did not know they apparently were stupid.
     
  2. lunarspeak

    lunarspeak

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    i would guess that the more the workers get paid the more the teamsters are paid soooooooooo......id guess they were just greedy
     

  3. WarCry

    WarCry

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    What was the deal offered by Hostess? Do you know what the union was being asked to give up? What's the magic number for you, if your boss tells you you're getting a 5% cut, 7%, 8, 10? What would be acceptable to you?
     
  4. Tim151515

    Tim151515 iHeartGuns

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    apparently 100%
     
  5. Armchair Commando

    Armchair Commando Long Range Guru

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    Unions are Worthless! God i hope Ohio becomes a right to work state soon!
     
  6. Huaco Kid

    Huaco Kid

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    My wife's family is going on fourth generation sheet metal union. I've never done it. I understand both sides.

    Why did the union guys in N.J. cuss the guys from the other states that came to fix the power grid?

    Some things I don't understand.

    I think the union just makes money for the Big Shots. Which is what most of the union guys hate the most.

    ?
     
  7. Armchair Commando

    Armchair Commando Long Range Guru

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    Whats acceptable to you? a 5% pay cut or you lose your job?
     
  8. Tim151515

    Tim151515 iHeartGuns

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    me too. but i dont see that happening since the unions are pushing us into the blue.
     
  9. srhoades

    srhoades

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    Apparently the situation is a bit more complex. I heard a radio report that about 10 years ago the company was taken over by hedge fund managers and bean counters and ever since then they have been slowly screwing the workers year after year in order to maximize the bottom line. Do companies have a right to make a profit? Of course. But when it comes to the point that you are dehumanizing your workers and treating them like factory equipment, the potential evils of capitalism pokes up its ugly head.

    Do unions likewise have potential evils? Absolutely. Once they start getting in bed with politics and ignoring their responsibility to negotiate a fair wage they have overstepped their bounds.

    I think both sides have a share in the blame.
     
  10. Adjuster

    Adjuster

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    I dislike unions myself but I think I understand their position. If the union caved in and accepted the not agreed to pay cut then every company in the future in the same type of situation will simply threaten to close the doors and shut down unless the union accepts the offer.


    /
     
  11. PaulMason

    PaulMason

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    :thumbsup:
     
  12. PaulMason

    PaulMason

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    The company was in bankruptcy. If it could pay its debts. In other words the income could not pay its expenses. Not very complicated.
     
  13. wrenrj1

    wrenrj1

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    What I heard on FNC business segments this morning was that the bakers union had some pretty ridiculous things in their contract that they would not let go of to save $, such as twinkies and wonder bread not being able to be delivered in the same truck, or the truck driver could not unload/stock the shelves, that was for another union employee to handle...

    The company chose to go bankrupt instead. Guess bank of Obama was ok with that.
     
  14. Roger1079

    Roger1079

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    An employee always has the option to quit. Nobody is forcing them to deal with unfair business practices. They are employees not prisoners or slaves.
     
  15. PaulMason

    PaulMason

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    Any company in bankruptcy or making a huge profit can do what you suggest if the owners are willing to do it.

    The unions could have looked at the books and bankruptcy filing and saw the financials and saw if management had room to negotiate on wages. Maybe they could of negotiated for a piece of the new company for the wage reduction. Why didn't they do that?

    The union officials are paid by all union members - not just Hostess. The officials didn't have much to lose, except the members that worked for Hostess. They bet and lost. Sad.
     
  16. paul45

    paul45

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    I need help in understanding your post.

    Could you point me to verified provenance of Hostess...

    and...
    I haven't read this and am interested, thanks.
     
  17. Jon_R

    Jon_R

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    What is fair wage? To me it a wage someone is willing to pay and someone is willing to receive. If the workers where worth x than someone would pay it so why do they care if the company closes they can just go somewhere else and make x. Unless they aren't worth that. Blow it up someone will fill the void for tasty treats. Market will sort it out.

    [QUOTE=srhoades;19641485]Apparently the situation is a bit more complex. I heard a radio report that about 10 years ago the company was taken over by hedge fund managers and bean counters and ever since then they have been slowly screwing the workers year after year in order to maximize the bottom line. Do companies have a right to make a profit? Of course. But when it comes to the point that you are dehumanizing your workers and treating them like factory equipment, the potential evils of capitalism pokes up its ugly head.

    Do unions likewise have potential evils? Absolutely. Once they start getting in bed with politics and ignoring their responsibility to negotiate a fair wage they have overstepped their bounds.

    I think both sides have a share in the blame.[/QUOTE]
     
  18. Roger1079

    Roger1079

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    Whatever it takes to keep the business running is the acceptable number. The bakers union stood their ground and now look at those morons. Instead of getting paid less, they opted to get paid nothing. Then again these people were stupid enough to join a union in the first place so I can see how basic math may have been too complicated for them. Lets use your numbers as a reference point.

    Paycheck - 5% > 0
    Paycheck - 7% > 0
    Paycheck - 8% > 0
    Paycheck - 10% > 0

    Seems fairly simple to me. I guess the bakers union doesn't provide intelligence as part of the contract.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  19. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    It wasnt a bet (gamble). Any member could have gone online and seen the financial filings in bankruptcy court. Because they were too stupid/lazy/etc to not become informed and made a stupid choice is not sad. Its deserved.
     
  20. Jon_R

    Jon_R

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    It is only a problem if you are paying an employee over their value. If my employer said he was cutting my pay 10% I would just go to other companies in the field because I can. Other people that can would to. You would only be left with the ones that can't because there is limited market for their skills. If there is limited market for their skills well then that means something.