Underwood Xtreme Defender - Finally a ballistic test and review

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by BlueBacker, Sep 1, 2015.

  1. BlueBacker

    BlueBacker

    Messages:
    8,091
    Likes Received:
    18,102
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Location:
    America
    The thread I started a couple of weeks was locked for some reason. Some of us have been waiting for a review on this. Got an email from Underwood today, this is what it says:

    The Xtreme Defender is based on the popular Xtreme Penetrator product line. The XD ammunition has an optimized nose flute, total weight, and velocity to achieve a penetration depth up to 18 inches* with a permanent wound cavity (PWC) that is just simply enormous; no other expanding hollowpoint comes close to achieving anywhere near this diameter and volume. Not only is the PWC over 100% larger than any other expanding bullet, expansion is achieved despite being shot through barriers. The solid copper body ensures that wallboard, sheet metal, and automotive glass will have no effect on the Permanent Wound Channel.

    Some things have to be seen to be believed. Since the release of the Xtreme Defender, we have received a particular request many times over: Can we see a video?
    We get it. The numbers we are reporting are almost unbelievable. The permanent wound channel, penetration, weight retention, etc. seem to good to be true.
    Check out this video from the Military Arms Channel to have any doubt removed.

    This round offers:
    • A permanent wound cavity (PWC)that is 2 times greater than any expanding bullet
    • Reduced recoil.
    • CNC machined from solid copper to overcome barriers to penetration
    • Radial flutes that force the hydraulic energy inward to build pressure
    • Minimal surface area to increase the force at the point of contact and sharp cutting edges that defeat barriers



     
    SCmasterblaster, chemboy and j3k like this.
  2. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

    Messages:
    7,390
    Likes Received:
    5,637
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    IMHO this bullet is not a replacement for modern JHP ammo but is a replacement for the FMJ bullet in a SD role. In any event I am more interested in both the Lehigh Extreme Penetrator and Lehigh Extreme Defender in their ability to defeat soft and hard body armor, to me this is where they can excel, as traditional ammo is useless in this role. With terrorists and criminals using armor more often I think this is the next frontier for ammo, the ability to defeat soft armor AND offer a good degree of stopping performance. I don't think Lehigh needs to reinvent the wheel but move on to the next level, an effective defense against armored BG!
     

  3. Big1

    Big1

    Messages:
    2,498
    Likes Received:
    981
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    Location:
    WA
    This is good to know and hear, I bought a box of 9mm, .357 Sig and some 10mm of this.
     
  4. j3k

    j3k

    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    25
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2014
    Thanks for the video, that's an impressive wound track for a handgun.
     
  5. BlueBacker

    BlueBacker

    Messages:
    8,091
    Likes Received:
    18,102
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Location:
    America
    You probably have the Xtreme Penetrator, don't think they have this in 10mm yet.
    https://www.underwoodammo.com/xtreme-defender/
     
  6. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster G17 carrier since 1989 Millennium Member

    Messages:
    21,060
    Likes Received:
    1,909
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 1999
    Location:
    Hartford, Vermont

    They surely do promote their ammo 'eh?
     
  7. timmay

    timmay

    Messages:
    1,226
    Likes Received:
    1,051
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2011
    Location:
    Ohio
    The permanent cavity in gel is impressive. I'd need to see what it does in tissue before I fork over that kind of dough.
     
  8. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster G17 carrier since 1989 Millennium Member

    Messages:
    21,060
    Likes Received:
    1,909
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 1999
    Location:
    Hartford, Vermont
    I wonder what the permanent cavity is for my CCWload - 9mm CorBon 115gr +p JHP?
     
  9. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

    Messages:
    30,750
    Likes Received:
    17,647
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    This guy likes 18" minimum penetration so I guess he's smarter and knows more than the freaking FBI's ballistics teams. And 1440 fps from a Glock 19 and it has "reduced recoil"? Yeah sure. And that has to be pushing +P+ pressures.

    I trust tnoutdoor's testing and his test certainly didn't show a 2" wide channel. And with denim it was very minimal. Yes I realize this was Lehigh's, not Underwood's.

     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015
    dervisivitz dokes likes this.
  10. fastbolt

    fastbolt

    Messages:
    26,818
    Likes Received:
    29,405
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2002
    Location:
    CA Central Coast
    If a really lightweight, all-copper 9mm bullet was going to take the world by storm, it probably would've been the Geco Action Safety Slug, also known as the BAT (Blitz Action Trauma) in the US.

    In my younger days, when I expected to find magic bullets, I picked up some boxes of it to try. After reading more of the development and reported performance of the bullet, I eventually gave the remaining boxes to a family member who liked to collect odd ammunition.

    The BAT/Action Safety load used an 86gr copper bullet loaded to produce 1400+fps.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8006608

    This new Xtreme loads sounds like an interesting variation on a ball load, but at a hefty cost.

    I think I'll continue to use the modern offerings of the various major maker JHP's produced for LE/defensive use.
     
    Glolt20-91 likes this.
  11. PlasticOwner

    PlasticOwner

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    17
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    I'm intrigued by the round, but would like to see some more ballistic tests.
     
  12. BlueBacker

    BlueBacker

    Messages:
    8,091
    Likes Received:
    18,102
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Location:
    America
    Again.
    That's NOT the same ammo
    That's the PENETRATOR.
    This is the DEFENDER.
     
  13. happie2shoot

    happie2shoot

    Messages:
    8,143
    Likes Received:
    6,895
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2008

    Do you remember years ago the French Arcane ammo or the Thunderzap ammo, one was brass/copper and
    the other was plastic/polymer, both would go over 2000 to 3000 fps in pistols and revolvers.

    Both made super wounds and even the plastic/polymer could go through vests when driven over
    3000 fps when loaded to its full potential in the 357.

    Familiar with THV Arcane ammo?
    their 9mm load(from France, no concerns about SAAMI pressures or lawsuits) was 45 grs at 2400 fps, in a 5" barrel. their .45 was 60 grs at 2200 fps. google for RBCD ammo and check out their 9x23 Win load. regular old 1911, and its 60 grs at 2600fps.
    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/handgun-discussion/31139-familiar-thv-arcane-ammo.html

    http://www.quarryhs.co.uk/THV.htm

    http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/58453581/wound-characteristics-38-special-thunderzap

    http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4036&hilit=thv

    http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8166&hilit=thv

    http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=421817

    http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-20225.html

    http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4127

    http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/113942-french-arcane-bullets-dean-grennell.html
     
  14. unit1069

    unit1069

    Messages:
    10,612
    Likes Received:
    3,153
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Location:
    So. Central US
    I stopped the video half way through because it seems more like a promotion than an unbiased ammo test.

    Did I miss anything on the back end?
     
  15. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

    Messages:
    7,390
    Likes Received:
    5,637
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Yes it was a painfully obvious red neck infomercial complete with what appeared to be a cooler full of about 10 blocks of gel and only one round of 9mm HST fired for comparison. This guy has lost all credibility with me as far as his tests go. But as I said before there is some value to these rounds, they are rugged powerful rounds especially the ones made by Underwood, that excel at tactical penetration and are more effective than FMJ. Lehigh is traveling down the wrong road trying to promote these as being superior to hollow points which they are not as the 9mm HST in his test looked more impressive than the XD and deep penetration does not impress me!
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015
  16. chemboy

    chemboy

    Messages:
    1,487
    Likes Received:
    674
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Location:
    River of No Return
    The price of these new rounds is flat breathtaking! Reminds me of the old trophy bonded bear claw, if anybody remembers that hunting bullet??
     
  17. fastbolt

    fastbolt

    Messages:
    26,818
    Likes Received:
    29,405
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2002
    Location:
    CA Central Coast
    Yep.
     
  18. BlueBacker

    BlueBacker

    Messages:
    8,091
    Likes Received:
    18,102
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Location:
    America
    He said he wasn't an expert at ballistic testing and obviously Underwood supplied him and asked him to do it, so yeah, take it with a grain of salt. I assume tnoutdoors and others will be doing tests soon, so we'll see what their results are. I still think it's an interesting round that shows a lot of promise, but I'm no expert.
     
  19. Glolt20-91

    Glolt20-91

    Messages:
    4,479
    Likes Received:
    712
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Location:
    Arizona Territory
    Just that the gel blocks had warmed to 51°-55°F as time progressed, well over spec.
     
  20. Glolt20-91

    Glolt20-91

    Messages:
    4,479
    Likes Received:
    712
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Location:
    Arizona Territory
    shoresroad and M 7 like this.