[Railsplitter]

357 Sig 65gr. Xtreme Defender Solid Monolithic Hunting & Self Defense Ammo

Underwood Ammo offers the most comprehensive and innovative Lehigh Defense™ Supersonic Lead Free Handgun Ammo for personal defense & hunting. Shop now .357 Sig Copper ammo with Solid Monolithic.

www.underwoodammo.com

Has anyone used this ammo?

It is currently out of stock, so I have been using the 68 grain ammo in it's place. I am using it in a Glock 34 with a 6" barrel which puts it either close to or at 2000fps.

Based on my experience and also my conversations with the late Jim Cirillo, it is clear that that once you hit a certain velocity the stopping power is multiplied in a huge way. What Jim said he saw was the M1 carbine with soft points at 1900 fps was the only gun they had in the NYPD stakeout unit that was 100% one shot stops.

When Underwood gets the 357 sig 65 grain, I will thern run this ammo in my Glock 35.

I really believe this ammo is a game changer in handgun ammo and not a gimmick.

The 357 Sig 65 gr XD round from Underwood out of a 6 inch barrel will get a velocity of 2200+ fps. Since this is basically rifle velocity using a barrier blind bullet I suggest it is indeed superior to most other handgun calibers and ammo.

 

[yonitidi1]

I thought I would give an update, I put a KKM Glock 24 357sig barrel in my Glock 35, with these Underwood rounds they are kissing very close to 2300fps.

Went hog hunting with these and they gave great penetration with huge wound channels, like maybe 2 to 3 times bigger than hollowpoints.

So my new EDC is Glock 35 that I flattened the grip, I then put an Overwatch polydat straight trigger in it and a 6 pound trigger spring, it doesn't have as good a trigger as my CZ P10F comp., but it good for a carry gun. I also have a Leupold Delta Micro red dot sight on it. This is the future of red dots in my opinion.

With the last 2 active shooters in the USA wearing soft body armor, I think this is a great pistol for the world we live in.

 

[Railsplitter]

I thought I would give an update, I put a KKM Glock 24 357sig barrel in my Glock 35, with these Underwood rounds they are kissing very close to 2300fps.

Went hog hunting with these and they gave great penetration with huge wound channels, like maybe 2 to 3 times bigger than hollowpoints.

So my new EDC is Glock 35 that I flattened the grip, I then put an Overwatch polydat straight trigger in it and a 6 pound trigger spring, it doesn't have as good a trigger as my CZ P10F comp., but it good for a carry gun. I also have a Leupold Delta Micro red dot sight on it. This is the future of red dots in my opinion.

With the last 2 active shooters in the USA wearing soft body armor, I think this is a great pistol for the world we live in.

The future is now.

Were you using the 65gr XD or the newer variety 68gr XD.?

 

[yonitidi1]

In 9mm I have both the 65 and the 68 grain, while in 357 sig it is 68 grain.

Bill Wilson of Wilson combat fame just bought Leighi, so I am guessing he also thinks the future is here now,

 

[Railsplitter]

In 9mm I have both the 65 and the 68 grain, while in 357 sig it is 68 grain.

Bill Wilson of Wilson combat fame just bought Leighi, so I am guessing he also thinks the future is here now,

He is confident enough to put his money into a new manufacturing plant in Texas to make these rounds I'm guessing that doesn't come cheap.

 

[crkckr]

The Lehigh Xtreme Defense bullets are definitely not a 'gimmick' - they work and work very well. Better, I believe, than any other bullet you can get in any caliber at any price! I have switched from my favorite hp bullet, the Gold Dot, to carrying the Underwood loading of the Lehigh XD bullet in every caliber I carry, from .380 to 10mm. Between my own testing and what I've seen on utube I'm convinced there simply is no better choice of bullet when it comes to self defense! The fact that Bill Wilson recently bought Lehigh just seems to me be a conformation of my beliefs! Now if Bill and Mas would just admit that they are carrying them, it would be a huge boost to the line!
Cheers,
crkckr

 

[Railsplitter]

The Lehigh Xtreme Defense bullets are definitely not a 'gimmick' - they work and work very well. Better, I believe, than any other bullet you can get in any caliber at any price! I have switched from my favorite hp bullet, the Gold Dot, to carrying the Underwood loading of the Lehigh XD bullet in every caliber I carry, from .380 to 10mm. Between my own testing and what I've seen on utube I'm convinced there simply is no better choice of bullet when it comes to self defense! The fact that Bill Wilson recently bought Lehigh just seems to me be a conformation of my beliefs! Now if Bill and Mas would just admit that they are carrying them, it would be a huge boost to the line!
Cheers,
crkckr

Bill Wilson is going to make his own ammo using these Lehigh bullets. I am not sure that Underwood will be allowed to continue offering ammo using Lehigh bullets.

Note the new XD, XP rounds that Lehigh/Wilson are offering have less velocity that what Underwood now offers. If you are serious about using these XD and XP bullets for SD I would suggest getting the good stuff from UA now just in case Wilson decides not to sell to UA. I am going to place an order for more of my favorite XD round shortly......just in case.

 

[yonitidi1]

If wilson cuts off Underwood, I hope they would still sell the bullets to reloaders. I would have to roll my own at Underwood specs

 

[crkckr]

Meeting Underwood specs on velocity is going to be pretty tough. I took an Underwood 115 gr XD apart and examined the powder very closely but I can't match any of my ball powders to theirs (and I have a bunch of them!). It could be they're using the Vihtavuori powders as I don't have any of them. They say it's flash suppressed while none of the available powders in the USA are truly flash suppressed. Some have lower flash than others and some are much like flash bulbs going off in your face! The Accurate powders are said to be flash suppressed but it's only true under certain circumstances. Barrel length, bullet weight and the load can easily change things! I would love it if someone would sell a truly flash suppressed powder that would work in the 10mm but you won't see me holding my breath waiting for it.

At any rate, I've tried all of the published load data for bullets like the 140 and 150 gr. Lehigh's but I'm falling short of Underwoods velocities by 200 fps or so! Even going a bit over the published data by up to a grain in some cases which still leaves me quite short of what Underwood is getting (and I have confirmed their velocities on my chronograph). Very frustrating! What really gets me is a couple of powders, mainly Unique aynd HS6, both fall way short of what's published by Underwood and other manuals. In most cases, Lehigh's loaded ammo has9 always been a bit slower than Underwood, so I don't think Lehigh has changed anything. It's without doubt good amo but replicating is not going to be easy!
Cheers,
crkckr

 

[yonitidi1]

When and if the time comes and I think the market exists I will give some of the Underwood to various places and try to get an analysis done on the powder.

One of the pleasures of owning a PMC and being an international arms dealer.

 

[crkckr]

Yon, that would be cool but only if it were commercially available to the reloading public. Some exotic mix from the powder companies available only to the ammo manufacturers, who orders it by the ton, wouldn't do us lowly basement reloaders much good, other than make us jealous!

I've run across powders that, in certain situations, don't have much muzzle flash. Specifically, my loading of the Speer 200 gr Gold Dot, meant for the .44 Special, loaded with IMR4227 in a .44 Mag case at about 1200 fps (I don't remember the exact load off hand). This combo produces zero muzzle flash out of my 5.5" Ruger Redhawk, which is pretty good for a gun that usually produces a muzzle flash measured in feet! Heavy loads with 240 JHP and buckets of 296/H110 (now the same powder but it didn't used to be!) produce a muzzle flash that any photographer would be proud of! Yes, it moves the bullets at a rapid pace but as a SD powder, it's useless. These muzzle flashes are visible in bright sunlight, which is saying something! I've also gotten pretty good muzzle flashes with Accurate Powder, which is supposedly flash suppressed! A true flash suppressed powder available to reloaders would be a real treat!
Cheers,
crkckr

 

[yonitidi1]

I watched a review of the SA 9mm 2011, the reviewer was shooting 68grain manufactured by Ultimate Ammo .

9MM+P Blue Line - Ultimate Ammunition

The 9MM+P BLUE LINE was created to outperform currently used duty ammunition. Made from solid copper, the Fluid Transfer Monolithic-EXD bullet is barrier blind.

ultimateammunition.com

They don't show the 68 grain on the web page at this time. But I like the fact that more companies are producing the ammo

 

[crkckr]

Wow, if that's not an exact copy of the Lehigh bullet, I'll eat my hat! I'm assuming Lehigh has a patent on the design of the all copper fluted bullet but I don't know that for a fact. I can't say I'm thrilled about the casing since I'm a reloader and they don't say anything about the ability to reload these cases, so that would be a big question in my mind. The velocity figures are certainly impressive! Underwood only gets about 1400 fps from their 90 gr 9mm bullet and seeing how this style of bullet works is directly related to how fast it's going when it hits a target, the higher the velocity the better it works! Underwood gets a higher figure out if their 9mm 68gr. bullet (Ultimate does not mention a bullet at that weight) but I would assume with the fancy (read: expensive!) case it should have velocity figures much higher. Time will tell!
Cheers,
crkckr

 

[Railsplitter]

Wow, if that's not an exact copy of the Lehigh bullet, I'll eat my hat! I'm assuming Lehigh has a patent on the design of the all copper fluted bullet but I don't know that for a fact. I can't say I'm thrilled about the casing since I'm a reloader and they don't say anything about the ability to reload these cases, so that would be a big question in my mind. The velocity figures are certainly impressive! Underwood only gets about 1400 fps from their 90 gr 9mm bullet and seeing how this style of bullet works is directly related to how fast it's going when it hits a target, the higher the velocity the better it works! Underwood gets a higher figure out if their 9mm 68gr. bullet (Ultimate does not mention a bullet at that weight) but I would assume with the fancy (read: expensive!) case it should have velocity figures much higher. Time will tell!
Cheers,
crkckr

This round matches the 90 gr 9 mm Underwood +P+ XD at 1550 fps. Underwood offers 3 power levels (Ultimate Ammo doesn't) of the 90 gr XD with the +P+ being the hottest. Underwood also offers the faster more effective 68 gr 9 mm XD as well as offering the XD in the other calibers. Also myself I don't see any real advantages with this type of case.

 

[crkckr]

I think they use this case so they can raise the pressures without having any effect on the barrel. But that's just a guess. There are the same type or style of cases used in the new army rifle and it's rated to 80,000 psi. I don't know if there are any other structural changes in the rifle to handle these pressures but I'm not really sure I want to be resting my head near something with that much pressure!
Cheers,
crkckr