Underwood 357sig Under Rated Velocity

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by Pilot172, Dec 11, 2019.

  1. 0311INF

    0311INF

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    The 115 grain Winchester Silvertip is light, but not-so-fast. It is supposed to get 1225 ft/sec but generally moves along at about 100 ft/sec slower than that. It gets ~11" of penetration with clothing tests.
    Bullet design has most to do with it, but the 115 grain 9mm BPLE does better.
     
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  2. fredj338

    fredj338

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    When I had some from that era, it clocked 1250fps in my g17. Plenty fast & definitely light but I suppose it depends on ones measure of fast. Hence the 11" of penetration. Yes you could design a 115gr bullet to expand less & penetrate further but just not enough mass to maintain momentum. The Fed load I believe is a +P & the bullet holds together better than the old STHP. Still, light bullets run our of steam faster as they expand v heavier bullets. Momentum for a 115gr @ 1250fps is 115, for a 144gr @ 1175fps is 146. SO if they expand the same, 124gr goes a bit deeper. A 147gr @ 1000fps is 147, a bit deeper still. You have to drive a lighter bullet very fast & have LESS frontal area to achieve penetration as heavier bullets. Why no one really wants to use 95gr bullets anymore in a 9mm.
    BTW The old Win 95gr PP would do 1325fps+ in my old M39, plenty fast & light but a momentum of 125 IF the expansion were all the same.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
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  3. Dog Soldier

    Dog Soldier NRA Benefactor

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    The Prong Horn or Antelope is a very thin skinned animal with hollow hair. On a number of occasions I have attempted to finish off these wounded "Goats" with my old S&W 39-9 9mm pistol. The 9mm proved in effective most times. Problem is I like my old 39-9 and love my Lugers. :dunno:
     
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  4. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    Nope, the one bullet worked as designed. It was a fatal wound he was just one tough hombre. Remember, he was hit with ONE bullet of 15 fired across the hood.....What 4 feet? As we say only hits count.
     
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  5. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    From the very beginning. Do you think many departments used 38 LRN and target wadcutters because they were the best or the most cost efficient?
     
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  6. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    I DO have the field experience.
     
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  7. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Never did I say you did not. Guys like rail, zero field exp & zeros studies on actual gunfights. You need to separate my answers to the general fantasy islanders & yourself. I respect any LEO that puts in the trigger time. The ones that only carry guns & run from fights, not so much.
     
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  8. fredj338

    fredj338

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    That is the point, the bullet was NOT designed for deep penetration on an oblique shot thru muscle & bone, few light & fast are. When talking stopping a fight fatal isn't really the point. Sure, without medical care the guy dies, but with a huge hole in his heart, he ceases to fight a lot faster. A person or animal with one lung will eventually die but can flee or fight for along time.
     
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  9. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    Agree for a 115gr bullet 1225 and under can't be classified as fast. This is a fast 115gr round, 1500 fps velocity with 575 ft/lbs of energy. If this Corbon round had been used in Miami the story would have been different.

    https://www.natchezss.com/corbon-se...ition-357-sig-115-gr-jhp-1500-fps-20-box.html
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
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  10. GlockinStihl

    GlockinStihl Glocked out, have a new SIGness!

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    I have the Underwood 115 grain Noslers +P+ 1400 fps.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
     
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  11. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    You do realize that civilians carry guns for SD ONLY when other measures have failed including running from the danger. Only a fool would not try to avoid a gun fight if possible, sorry if you don't respect that.
     
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  12. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    And that is why a bullet that has a balance of ballistic performance areas works best in the greatest variety of situations. A hard hitting high energy HP round with good penetration and good barrier penetration when needed is the best bet, all bases are covered. Depending just on deep penetration alone and hoping to get lucky on a CNS hit or wait several minutes for bleed out is a fools game that will get you killed. The only thing that will affect someone, wound, shock or disable DURING the very few short seconds of a gun fight when it is of critical importance is energy dump/shock or in other words hard hitting ammo. Deep penetrating rounds will kill......eventually after the fight is over if someone doesn't mind having a magazine unloaded on them in the mean time.

    Balanced performance said it again! The combination of several ballistic factors..... working together to provide the most effective SD round.
     
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  13. George Kaplan

    George Kaplan emeritus

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    You read this on the Internet somewhere, sometime. Good for you. Doesn't make it true and it doesn't make you right.
     
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  14. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    The Remington 158 GRN SJHP's that we used worked splendidly, everyone over penetrating the BG and stopping them FAST. Every one I saw shot with ANY 357 mag HP was out of the fight, immediately. This myth that OP bullets don't work as well as those that stop in a BG is just that, a myth.

    Shot placement.
     
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  15. fredj338

    fredj338

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    I have no idea what that even means Rail, you are off the rail buddy.
    There are those that own guns, those that carry guns & those that know how to use a gun in self defense. The later requires training & practice, ccw or LEO. If you shoot less than once a month in some form of dynamic practice, like maybe 90% of all LEO & CCW, never been trained, like maybe 75% of all ccw, then spend your time on the internet talking about big bad, lightening bolt affect energy dump? I submit you are in that large group of unskilled & untrained.
     
  16. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Seriously rail, for a guy with zero field experience, how can you even make such a ridiculous claim? IS it all based on wobbly gel porn? It isn't luck to deliver good hits on target, it is skill. You do not hit anything vital, the fight isn't stopping, just been proven 1000s of times. WHy, because the myth is energy dump stops a fight, pure delusional BS right there.:crazy:
     
  17. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    You realize we are talking about Underwood ammo? Some ones training is a different subject . This is caliber corner not tactics and training.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  18. fredj338

    fredj338

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    I don't care if it is Underwood or underwear rqail, you have no idea what you are talking about. Zero. Your entire opinion & BS is based on gel porn. You refute statistical data because it doesn't fit your fantasy that a hit from a slightly higher ME round wins most of the time. Reality says otherwise. A good hit with a good bullet, 9mm & up wins most fights. Any instant stop is because the target gave up, NOT because his body was shocked to the ground. Pure fantasy island stuff right there. Service caliber, SHot placement, good bullet = fight stopper. Poor hit, don't care what you hit with, shotgun, rifle, magnum fight continues & that is what gets you killed.
    Oh yeah & training does matter. IF you can't hit rapidly with it, doesn't matter if you carry a bazooka. Training & skill ALWAYS matters. It is why I have moved several less committed shooters off their compact 40 or 45, they cant hit with it rapidly. Doesn't matter what you do slow fire at the range, standing still at 21ft, it matter what you can hit while moving, maybe with only one hand. Go shoot your G33 in timed drills with one hand get back to me. I am sure it will open your eyes a bit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
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  19. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    You said poor hits not me. Obviously accuracy is an important skill factor that is required for the HUMAN portion of the fight.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  20. fredj338

    fredj338

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    WHICH IS ALL THAT MATTERS. The gun & ammo are not winning the fight without someone pulling the trigger.:okie:
     
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