Underwood 357sig Under Rated Velocity

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by Pilot172, Dec 11, 2019.

  1. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Well not sure how but crap happens I suppose.
     
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  2. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    He was not as good as he thought he was.
     
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  3. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Apparently! Shooting in total darkness, muzzle flash only, many can do much better than a miss out to 21ft.
     
  4. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    Yup, he got pissed too....
     
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  5. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Probably for much the same reasons boxers and other fighters miss their punches and kicks at close range.
     
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  6. fredj338

    fredj338

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    No doubt. Why we dont see many LEO in competition, its an ego/confidence smasher for most.
     
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  7. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    No kidding... We hosted a police week match, first one hundreds of cops...... Second one forty cops....
     
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  8. fredj338

    fredj338

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    One of my shooting buddies is dhs, good shooter. We used to put on a LE on a combat style match with idpa scoring once a 1-2x a year, Charity event open only to leo. He asked me to help put it on & act as primary SO. About 60 guys & gals showed. The enjoyed it, a couple even started shooting a few times a year with our club.
    The skill level was all over the place though, from barely functional to an Air Marshall that was pretty damn good. We did this because most leo just dont shoot & wont shoot with civis & be out done. It was designed to show what skill level you could have with just a bit of practice.
     
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  9. GunsNweights87

    GunsNweights87

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    Adrenaline it’s a hell of a drug lol


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  10. Teecher45

    Teecher45

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    Wrong about what?
    And, what have I been wrong about before?


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  11. George Kaplan

    George Kaplan emeritus

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    You are wrong because you do not agree with him.

    Energy theory guys are the liberal democrats of the gun world. Angry. Argumentative. Always right. Thoughts based on feelings over fact. Strong in numbers but weak when culled.
     
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  12. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    That it is a decision based upon emotion. If it was that I would carry a 45.
     
  13. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    That is rich. Nope, not angry. No more argumentative than the 9mm fan boys. Show me where I am wrong. You say 9mm is better, I disagree, you Cite jello tests, I cite real world results. You say science, I say that scientific theory must be proven in the field. If you used something that we know was historically, consistently successful on the street over a wide range of situations, say the 125 grain 357 magnum @ 1400 fps and shoot that into jello, and compare the others to that as a comparitor, I could get on board.

    It's not ALL about energy to me, but after decades on the street, I tend to favor light for caliber, fast JHP's in service pistols for SD. I have seen it work consistently. Thoughts yes, feelings, no. As I just said if I based my decision on emotion then I would carry a 45, probably in a 1911. But as it is I generally carry a Glock in 357 Sig or 40 S&W and gasp 9mm when my new Glock 45 gets in. And yes, I plan to carry 9BPLE ammo in my 9mm, why you ask? Because I have seen it in action.

    If anything we are outnumbered by you George. Do you ever add anything meaningful or do you just pop in to troll?
     
  14. fredj338

    fredj338

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    The light & fast v big & slow has been going on since the 357mag came to be. Light & fast works, until it doesnt. I o ow a few here dont believe that crushing vital tissue is where its at, but really want to stop a fight crush vital tissue, because energy dump diesnt get it dine on a handgun. Real world results show that as well, everything fails at some point.
    The defning element is the shooters ability to place shots into vitals. No amount of temp ca makes up for that on a fight. So if your platform doesnt allow you rapid hits, conts t to 25y, practice a hell of a lot mor or drop to a less recoiling rd. This stuff is really simple, some need to stop making it so complicated.
     
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  15. Teecher45

    Teecher45

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    I don’t understand how carrying a .45 is an emotional decision.
    From the tests I’ve seen it’s probably the best round-for-round performer of the service calibers , if using a 5”+ barrel.
    I’m just not up for carrying a 1911 anymore.


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  16. Teecher45

    Teecher45

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    Who is saying the 9mm is better?
    What has been said, numerous times, but the fanboys misquote it, is that there is no significant difference between the service calibers. So, given that, why wouldn’t I take the extra capacity and quicker follow-up shots the 9mm provides?
    I’m actually glad you brought-up the .357 mag thing, made me look at the numbers. I have two .357 mag revolvers and carry them most of the time when out hunting/fishing/camping. But, I’ve often wondered if the extra weight was worth it. It would be so much easier to carry the 27.
    This is what I found, using tnoutdoors9 because it’s apples-to-apples:
    The mag:


    View: https://youtu.be/KxXTNzpBcvM

    The .40:


    View: https://youtu.be/s8dezgRVqs0


    Looks like I can retire the old revolvers, although I’ll still shoot them, I love shooting revolvers.
    But in an apples-to-apples comparison it looks like the magnum round (round-for-round) outperforms the 9 and the sig round, performs similarly to the .40, and the .45.
    Better expansion than the .40 but not as much as the .45.
    Better penetration than the .45 but not as much as the .40.
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    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
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  17. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    Nothing wrong with that. I guess you missed to post about me buying a Glock 45 (9mm). Or you did not like it because I am going to use 9BPLE. We can cherry pick rounds and tests and stats to make our point all day. The 357 Sig, according to those departments that have used them in REAL fights does work significantly better than the 9mm. It is just to most departments economics usually wins out.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
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  18. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    When doesn't it work? I have the ability to place the shots accurately and rapidly with anything I carry. I even shoot my 640 in IDPA sometimes and actually beat some of the guys using 6 shot revolvers. With my 6 shot revolvers I routinely shoot a better raw score than about half the auto shooters in my club. My splits between magnums and specials are in the .1 range, totally insignificant in a fight.

    Yup everything fails once in a while, the important distinction is what works most of the time.
     
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  19. Teecher45

    Teecher45

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    What I like about you Nanuk is that you seem to have the ability to use common sense and don’t just think energy beats everything else. You also have first-hand experience. Thank you for your service.
    I didn’t miss that you’re awaiting your G-45, I have one and it has become my favorite Glock. I think you’ll love it.
    We previously discussed your choice in the 9BPLE round for SD in this thread. I stated something along the lines of it was a great round, back in the 1900’s (lol, jk). But IMO, there are better rounds available today. I then (iirc) posted some videos comparing the 9BPLE to an HST.
    Full disclosure, I once carried the 9BPLE round, and would have no problem carrying it again, if I couldn’t get any GD’s or HST’s.
    Here’s the only issue I have, I’m sure some of those officers truly feel that way. But.
    There’s no way to prove, if a premium 9mm or .40, or .45 load was used in those ois’, the effects wouldn’t have been the same.
    I am issued the .40 in the M&P (mod 1 and hate it) and picked-up a G-27 on a trade. When the sweatshirts/jackets come out, I carry the G-45.
    I don’t care the diameter of the round in the magazine, I know my training and skill-set are far more important in deciding the outcome, if it ever came to that.



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  20. Teecher45

    Teecher45

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    I’m speaking for Fred, and if I’m wrong he’ll let me know.
    I think the point is, if you spent the same amount of time training on a lesser recoiling round your times would be even better.
    You seem like a accomplished shooter. I can usually smell BS a mile away.
    All we’re trying to say is, if a good shooter spent an equal amount of time on two equivalent platforms, say a G-19 vs a G-32, his/her times would be better with the lessor recoiling round.
    The differences would be even greater for a beginning shooter or in smaller pistols.
    Now, if someone believes energy wins the day, then the difference won’t matter to them, and they’ll train less (probably) because they believe their “magical bullet” will win the fight, no matter what.
    But if someone believes there’s no significant difference between the service calibers they’ll probably take the extra capacity and quicker follow-up shots. Then, not believing in “magical bullets”, they will also probably understand that skill-set and training could be the deciding factor in a gunfight. So, they train more.
    Especially with a lighter recoiling, cheaper to shoot, round.
    Just my experience as a trainer/instructor and range owner/operator.


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