Underwood 357sig Under Rated Velocity

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by Pilot172, Dec 11, 2019.

  1. fredj338

    fredj338

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    As long as the add'l recoil doesn't affect your shooting, sure why not. I can shoot a full house 44mag in a 4" revolver pretty well, but is it worth the pounding & add'l gun wt? Maybe for a bear gun but not for a ccw. Still, I can shoot & hit faster & better with a subcompact 9mm +p, Easier to carry too. So run the drills, the timer & target never lie. Just be realistic & honest with yourself. At contact we all can land hits pretty fast, regardless of caliber, even that 4" 44mag. The diff will be when you move to just 21ft, and things really slow down for the lesser skilled shooters past that.
     
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  2. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    Nope, not personal at all.
     

  3. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    That is the whole time/distance equation.
     
  4. Teecher45

    Teecher45

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    Again, you got any data to back that up?
    Or just feelings?


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  5. George Kaplan

    George Kaplan emeritus

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    "Jello boy", "combat dentist". Nope. Nothing personal. Sans emotion.
     
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  6. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    No actually I was correct more powerful faster "HP" ammo makes larger wound cavities than weaker rounds of the same design. I know this is cutting edge stuff for you but try to keep up.


    This often posted test made by tnoutdoors9 shows him using a ....50 lb. block of gel... for his test. You will note there was no large ballooning or blowing up of this good sized gel block yet the 357 Sig HST still produced a "very impressive" PWC. It would have made no difference if the block was 100 lb. the penetration and PWC would still be basically the same.



    View: https://youtu.be/3kLkpIljrNA
     
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  7. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Well yes & shootng skill need not be as high. You need no sights & even if jerking the trigger, inside 3ft you will liklely land evry shot. No, accuracy at speed becomes more measurable at 21ft & beyond imo. Look at any qualification cof, most misses will be beyond 12y or so at high speed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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  8. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Again, why is this so hard? If the bullet design is capable, yes, if not, no, more vel doesnt do a lot. Example, pay attention, the old & slow 45acp with a good bullet produces a massive perm wound channel. A mere 850fps & 400ft#. So driving it faster may or may not help. Once the bullet reaches its max, drivng it faster may only cause fragmentation, reducing penetration to the, yeah important vitals. The bullet is everuthing, vel & energy help it do work, but still no energy dump or lightening bolts, no easter bunny or santa either.
     
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  9. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    I think you are confused again. I said that energy gives a bullet the ability to do all the things it does such as penetrate, expand and provide a balanced ballistic package. If that isn't correct please explain why how a bullet would perform without energy.
     
  10. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Well because their is mo such data. Look at Ellifritz data gatheted from real shootings. Like M&S, a bit vague but what you get from it is everything works witn 2 good hits & everything has failed with multiple hits that likely were not good.
    https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power
     
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  11. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    So now we have changed the subject yet again. Now we are off the FMJ and BIG GEL block kick and implying that ammo companied can't make bullets that perform well and penetrate with higher velocities. Ever heard of a XTP, Golden Saber or #54234 Gold Dot in 357 Sig all offer good penetration expansion and energy dump no matter if you agree or not. And yes Dorothy even in large blocks of gel.
     
  12. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    No but that would be a good project for you. Just go fine 100 people who have been shot and ask them if it hurt. Then report the data immediately to us.
     
  13. Teecher45

    Teecher45

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    Actually, that’s all I needed to know.


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  14. Teecher45

    Teecher45

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    Therein lies the problem.
    They prefer feelings over facts.
    Kinda like joe biden said “we prefer (what we believe to be our) truths over facts”.


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  15. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Not changing anything rail, just trying examples that make sense to get you off the idea of energy dump as a wounding mechanism, but some people are unteachable.:help: For those of us that have shot large things, we know better. Try some field exp, maybe actual study gunfight data, see how woefully wrong your theory of enery dump is.
     
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  16. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    LOL.... I went to a SWAT school in the early 1980's and this one guy kept missing everything in FOF @ 3-4 feet....
     
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  17. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    A little fragmentation is not a bad thing.
     
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  18. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    Wrong again.
     
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  19. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    This sort of tale-chasing and gear-centric thread is why it's typically much less of a headache when people who are issued weapons and ammunition have that turmoil already resolved for them. ;) That just leaves the knowledge, tactics and skillset for them to focus on. ;)

    There's always going to be those folks who want to sublimate skillset interest to gear concerns, though. It may make them feel better about investing less effort to receiving any degree of training, and investing effort in some degree of recurrent practice (and its quality), or it may simply be the way they like to make themselves feel better about how they arrange their priorities.

    There's also always going to be those folks who are inclined to chase after some 1-2%% greater "power", while conveniently ignoring the 40% problem of actual skillset development, periodic assessment and maintenance.

    Hits matter, and before you worry about the caliber or "power"of the hits, you've got to be able to make them happen, regardless of the circumstances.
     
  20. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Agree, as long as penetration dpesnt suffer. Why I am not a huge fan of bonded jhp for ccw in general.
     
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