Underwood 357sig Under Rated Velocity

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by Pilot172, Dec 11, 2019.

  1. Teecher45

    Teecher45

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    And you said I was being snarky, lol.

    What about follow-up shots? Physics says if a round takes your weapon “off-target” more because of more recoil it will take longer to get your weapon back on target. That either equates to slower follow-up shots or the shooter rushing it and accuracy suffers.
    With the added bonus of the lighter recoiling round performing just as well as the one with all of that energy.
    Oh, and more capacity, let’s not forget that.


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  2. Teecher45

    Teecher45

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    You guys come up with the funniest stuff when trying to justify your choice in caliber.

    DocGKR said it best, “What’s the point of this cartridge?”
    It’s circling the drain...


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  3. Teecher45

    Teecher45

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    You don’t see it because you don’t want to see it, and that’s okay. Shoot what you want.
    I used to think the only caliber worth having was the .45 (see Teecher45). But I actually started testing, and doing research with an open mind because I wanted to carry the platform and caliber that gives me the best chance of protecting my family. I went with the data presented by 1,000’s of ois, by experts.
    Not my feelings.
    The sig fanboys have absolutely no data, just feelings.
    Do you actually have any data from said departments?
    If so, do you have any data that proves if the same shot(s) would have been taken with a premium 9mm load the outcome would have been any different?
    No, just conjecture and feelings.
    It’s faster, so it’s gotta be better, right?
    The problem is, it just isn’t.
    The repeatable, scientific tests, says the sig round and the 9mm are about equal. The .40 outperforms both, round-to-round. The .45 is still king when used with a 5”+ barrel.
    The sig round is on its way out because it doesn’t do anything better than the other service rounds. If it did departments and ammo manufacturers wouldn’t be dumping it and we’d all be using it.


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  4. Pilot172

    Pilot172

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    Again, the best testing is studying actual shootings. From what I have researched, there are 4 reasons departs that used 357sig have switched to 9mm. One is ability to shoot well. I agree it takes more practice to be proficient with 357sig. For civiliians, most all encountered are close range, so not much of an issue. I practice a lot and my split times are very close at 5-7 yards, hundreths of a second. Second reason is cost. This appears to be the main reason for most. Third reason is the 9mm performs adaquately now with newer bullet designs. No where did I hear it performs better than 357sig. And the fourth reason, they follow the herd. With others changing to 9mm they think they should too. Same with civilians.
     
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  5. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    Jello boy again?

    I will repeat.... If you don't like it don't carry it.
     
  6. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    Again, with the differences in power levels we are talking if it materially affects your speed or accuracy at combat distances you need to learn to shoot. You 9mm fan boys ALWAYS go there. Split time differences are going to be in the .1 of a second range, totally irrelevant in a fight.

    I can shoot my 357 magnum K frame faster and more accurate than most 9mm shooters that I shoot with shoot their pet 9mm's.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  7. AdamRodgers

    AdamRodgers "Facts matter, Feeling can lie" DocGKR

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    Deleted : I just give up, I cant put a word to text any better than I can to paper, this is why not everybody is a writer. No one who is on the other side of the fence is gonna pay any attention anyway, screw it.

    Have a good Sunday evening.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
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  8. 0311INF

    0311INF

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    I don't think anyone is debating skill level or variable factors here...variables that nullify controlled experiments are invariably going to skew results. I would say we are discussing shot for shot effectiveness with all else (placement, target medium, range, how mean or drugged up the perp might be) being equal. Its impossible to really take the data into a real world scenario and have it play out as expected.
    In any case, .357 Sig velocity, just like that of .357 Magnum or 115 grain 9mm+p+, may not always be necessary anymore given the modern ammo available. But it does have a huge advantage...that velocity ensures you get the performance that you need. Short barreled 9mm 147 grain is not always a sure thing. Velocity may be "so 1980s" but hey, it still controls expansion.
    The uncontrollabe variables mentioned above all can work against you at the wrong time. In my mind, the highest (service caliber) performers (meaning reliably do what they're supposed to do in nearly all circumstances) are oddly now the most unpopular rounds, .357 Sig and .40 S&W.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
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  9. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Federal recently announced they've added the .357SIG to their commercial line of HST, sold in 20rd boxes. Unsurprising, as now that it's in rapid decline for LE/Gov sales, they can probably make a better profit by selling it to the general public in their commercial packaging. Probably easier to make the smaller commercial production runs, too. They'll make it when their scheduling permits, and as their distribution networks request new inventory, rather than have to keep production up for a contract.
     
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  10. 0311INF

    0311INF

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    I'm sure Jack Wilson helped.
     
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  11. fredj338

    fredj338

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    The issue for most with followup shots is distance. At contact, virtually no diff even with medicre shooters. Nothing to do inside 6ft but point & press. Where followup shot acvuracy becomes an issue is 21ft & beyond, front sight terriitory. Lose the fs, your accuracy at speed suffers. Why many dnt think it matters because they dont actually put it to a test.
    All the service calibers are on my ccw. I am more than comfy with all of them. I jst pay more attention to carry ammo for the 9/g26.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  12. fredj338

    fredj338

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    My laso buddy was a pilot for them, now retired works reserves. He is a competent shooter, but not a good shooter. He made it 25y without serious incident though, still working the streets, but still,shoots most weekends too. Where he suffers most is beyond 10y. Tells me he wants a carbine past that! Cant argue that but ya gotta fight with what you have in hand.
     
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  13. GunsNweights87

    GunsNweights87

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    Front sight what front sight lol red dots are the way of the future


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  14. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    I recall that being said about lasers.

    Red dots will become increasingly popular ... right up until the next big development in target acquisition and confirmation of POA/POI comes along. ;)

    Meanwhile, the earliest handheld pistols didn't even have sights ... at first.
     
  15. Teecher45

    Teecher45

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    Okay, it’s time to put your money where your mouth is.
    There has been plenty of evidence supporting the premium 9mm loads to be equal to the sig round, and the .40 outperforming both; the tnoutdoors9 videos.
    Data from over 1700 Real-world shootings.
    Expert testimony from guys who design and build SD ammo for probably the country’s (maybe world’s) largest SD round manufacturer that are telling us there’s no significant difference between the service calibers and energy doesn’t matter until you get into rifle velocities.
    Guys that have shot, built, designed, and redesigned 1911’s their whole lives tell you they’ve moved to the 9mm for various reasons, to include they perform as well as any other service caliber out there.

    So the question is, do the sig guys have any scientific, repeatable, real-world data?
    I have a feeling If you did we would have seen it by now.

    All you’ll do is tell me the data presented isn’t enough or try to poke holes in their findings.
    I was once like you, I thought SD calibers started and ended with the .45.
    I researched with an open mind and evolved.

    If any of the service calibers were significantly better than the rest, we’d all be using it.



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  16. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    I am gratified that after having tested so many different ammo types and calibers that you hold these two calibers in such high esteem. I have .40 and 357 Sig Glocks and each has a barrel for both calibers, this IMHO provides the ultimate SD handgun. I feel blessed to have the option of owning these two modern calibers since I grew up in a time when the 38 Special J frame was the only practical CCW option available.

    As far as the 357 Sig HST goes I think Federal will support it for some time to come. Enjoy your videos keep up the good work.
     
  17. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    Deja vu all over again. Wasn't this the same BS song and dance posted earlier in the thread. Sweeping statements of opinions told as truth, "experts say", unsupported theories and so on. Offering nothing but yet demanding facts and data from others.

    Twenty six pages of senseless off topic trolling, something GT can really be proud of.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
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  18. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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  19. George Kaplan

    George Kaplan emeritus

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    This pretty much has always summed it up.

    But the energy guys counter by saying the FBI panders to the women and paper pushing weaklings. I'm sure there are exceptions but I served with some fellows who hired on to many alphabet government organizations that could out shoot as well as out squat, dead lift, and bench press everyone participating in this thread.

    Or because the 9mm is so much cheaper. You know, because the .gov spends taxpayer money so wisely and cares so much on being frugal with our money.

    What did I miss?
     
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  20. George Kaplan

    George Kaplan emeritus

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    Jello boy? I thought it was combat dentist? I met the guy and I guarantee, G-U-A-R-A-N-T-E-E that if in a one-on-one debate with him on anything firearms, you would leave the room whimpering with your tail between your legs.

    Don't believe me? Take the first step. Go to pistol-forums. You will find him there. Spew the same nonsense there as you do here and watch what happens.
     
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