Underwood 357sig Under Rated Velocity

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by Pilot172, Dec 11, 2019.

  1. Pilot172

    Pilot172

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    Last week I chrono tested some Underwood 125gr Gold Dot ammo rated at 1475fps out of my G33 with a 4” KKM barrel. I only got an average of 1405fps in 10 rounds tested. There are dozens of chrono test results online, some even right on the Underwood site in the reviews, stating 1500+ velocities out of a 4” barrel. I have not seen any test results yet under 1500fps.

    My chrono is accurate. It’s been tested against other chronos. I tested my handload 357sig rounds that were under max load at the same time and they ran just over 1500. It seems I received a bad batch from Underwood?

    I contacted them and they responded a few days later that they test with a 4.6” barrel. For one, like I said before, everyone else is getting 1500 in a 4” barrel. And secondly, I found a post from 2018 where a person also contacted Underwood about the 357sig and asked what test barrel they use. Underwood responded that they use a 4” barrel. So I don’t know what to believe. Is it a bad batch? Did Underwood recently lower their recipe? Are they really using a 4.6” barrel now and therefore lowered their load?

    I've always been very happy with Underwood ammo, carried it for years, and their 9mm loads have always been right on with my chrono. Has anyone recently tested the 357sig load from Underwood? Curious if you are getting the same results
     
  2. creativetownsman

    creativetownsman

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    Well I shot some of it at the range recently, indoors, out of an alpha wolf 4" fluted 357 Sig Barrel and it 'felt' like the advertised velocity, and 'felt' like FPE was 600, or greater. My statements are as accurate as the dodos on YouTube who don't have a trigger pull gauge and emphatically state what the trigger pull is on various firearms!

    Sent from my SM-J337V using Tapatalk
     
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  3. silversport

    silversport

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    what type of rifling on the KKM barrel???...hasn't GLOCK always claimed their polygonal rifling gets them better velocity than other barrel makes rifling???

    Bill
     
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  4. G26-Has-my-6

    G26-Has-my-6

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    so, we are talking about 1-1450/1500 = .03 or 3% difference?

    air temperature, barometric pressure, humidity, cartridge temperature all affect chronograph results. If you look at the TNoutdoors videos it was in the 90's and humid. What were your conditions? Also, humid air is less dense than dry air (O2 has a MW of 32, N2 has a MW of 28 and H2O has a MW of 18).

    And all this completely ignores difference in chronographs.
     
  5. Pilot172

    Pilot172

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    KKM uses button rifling. I have never seen any difference in velocity between Glock OEM barrels and aftermarket.
     
  6. Pilot172

    Pilot172

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    It's a 6.7% difference, 100fps, 1400/1500. It was 45F out, low humidity, not enough to drop 100fps. But like I said, I tested other handloads at the same time and they easily were over 1500. My weakest loads ran about 1400, same as Underwood. I have chrono'd Underwood's 9mm +P+ 1300fps load and it was right around 1300 with the same chrono, different day but similar temps in the 40's. My chrono is correct.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  7. Mike-M

    Mike-M

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    You probably meant ft/s, not ft/min. Proofreading and the EDIT button are your friends. :)
     
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  8. Pilot172

    Pilot172

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    Yes fps. To my defense, I'm an engineer currently on a machine start up in Massachusetts. The machine runs in FPM, Lol. I'm so used to talking in FPM.
     
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  9. AdamRodgers

    AdamRodgers "Facts matter, Feeling can lie" DocGKR

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    Might have what folks call a "Slow Barrel" I have one Glock 17, my Range Monkey that is always a good 50 to 60 fps faster than my backup G17.

    Was the 1,500 fps shots done in the hot summer sunshine?
    Chronos can screw up and I have never had mine throw the exact same numbers as my buddy's but mine came over on the Ark.
    Underwood could have started using a full size pistol?

    I wouldn't freak out unless it went from 1,405 down to 1,305 and back up to 1,501 all in the same box or lot number.

    Now I am not you so please don't take anything I said the wrong way, but maybe also try another order of ammo in a couple weeks and test them, unless it's over pressured or squiby I wouldn't worry to much. :cheers:
     
  10. George Kaplan

    George Kaplan emeritus

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    Highly unlikely coming out of KKM. Chasing velocity is a fool's errand.
     
  11. Pilot172

    Pilot172

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    All loads where tested at the same time, my handloads at 1500 and the Underwood ammo. Like I said, my less than max handloads hit 1500 in the same barrel on the same range trip. Underwood did respond that they use a 4.6" barrel for testing. So to me that implies that they did indeed lower their load, because others have been getting 1500 in a 4" and according to one person in 2018, he said Underwood responded that they use a 4" test barrel. I did get 4 boxes and only tested one of the boxes. I'll test another box next time, but they are most likely from the same batch.
     
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  12. AdamRodgers

    AdamRodgers "Facts matter, Feeling can lie" DocGKR

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    I don't see bumping up .60 in barrel length making that much difference but stranger things have happened.

    Sorta makes me want to Chrono the new Bach of 147gr +p+ 9mm Underwood ammo I just got in a couple weeks ago, all mine have been around 30 fps faster than the box quoted speed.

    I have heard that with the bigger manufacturers like Winchester, Federal, Remington & such they set there loading machines a little on the soft side because they will "Grow" a bit as more ammo gets thrown. Makes me wonder if that is the same with Underwood now???

    Honestly I don't know. :dunno:
     
  13. DrewBone

    DrewBone

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    Adam, why must everything be so complicated?! Them boolits musta' slipped outta' their cases a few thousandths due to expansion and contraction from changes in temperature during shipping, so all he's gotta' do is hammer them back in a little bit and I'm sure he'll get the velocity he's looking for.

    :tease:
     
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  14. Pilot172

    Pilot172

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    Nope, I checked them 1.125" on the head, LOL.
     
  15. AdamRodgers

    AdamRodgers "Facts matter, Feeling can lie" DocGKR

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    I need to hit mine with a sledge ;)
     
  16. silversport

    silversport

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    I can only go by what I've read but it seems to me that posted velocities of GLOCK type (polygonal) barrels have had higher listed velocities than more traditionally rifled barrels...but if you've actually measured them you have actual experience whereas I only can go by what I've read...

    thanks for sharing that,

    Bill
     
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  17. LouisianaGunSlinger

    LouisianaGunSlinger

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    For carry ammo, stick with well-vetted, professionally-tested (not YouTube tested, think government LE testers) ammunition from well known manufacturers with large LE contracts. They have QC and oversight in place that guarantees it will perform as outlined in their LE contracts. YouTube amateur testers use substitute gels like SIM-TEST and Clear Gel that has no scientifically proven correlation with how a projectile acts in a human body like true organic 10% FBI-spec ballistic ordnance gelatin, and the controls in place by YouTube testers are not within spec, leading to unreliable results. They simply do not have or use the resources needed to do testing properly.

    Boutique manufacturers' ammo are not to be trusted with your life.

    Underwood uses projectiles like Gold Dots that are not meant to be driven at 1500 FPS. This leads to over-expansion and under-penetration (more likely not to reach vital organs in an attacker, especially at bad angles and heavy clothing), or the petals will peel back flat against the core resulting in a smaller-than-desired overall diameter and overpenetration.

    Velocity isn't everything, and it's even undesirable past a certain point. Ft/lbs of energy has no direct bearing on a projectile's effectiveness or what it does in tissue, it only is a measure of an object's ability to do work.
     
  18. AdamRodgers

    AdamRodgers "Facts matter, Feeling can lie" DocGKR

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    ^^^^ Good Info. ^^^^

    I do use Underwood ammo quite a bit, and never had one problem with it but that doesn't mean doodly squat. The reason I get Underwood ammo for 95% of the time is to pop a Hog with, at least with a screwed up shot on a porker I can climb a tree.:eek:
     
  19. George Kaplan

    George Kaplan emeritus

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    HOW DARE YOU! You wouldn't last 10 seconds in Caliber Corner posting something so accurate and logical. Those energy guys will put you on ignore, call you a troll and 9mm cultist, and report you to a moderator to get you banned.
     
  20. Pilot172

    Pilot172

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    Thanks for the info and you are right on. I'm well aware of this and have done a lot research on the subject of bullet design and velocity, and even wrote a short article on it (not published yet). It's particularily true for 9mm, but not as much for 357sig. The GD 357sig is designed for 1350-1400 and has a shallower hollow point. The extra 100fps does not effect it that much, expansion is about the same. Not the same for say the 124gr GD 9mm. That can over expand easily. The thing is with the 357sig, people don't buy one to get 1300-1350fps. You may as well just stick to 9mm +P. People who buy 357sig want velocity. That's what keeps this round alive. I bought mine (actually I won this one in GSSF) expecting to have a gun that could do close to 1500fps. So the Underwood did 1405. I don't know why it's 100fps lower than everyone else, but in retrospect, it's not a bad velocity for that bullet, still in it's designed range and less recoil than would be at 1500. I can live with it, LOL.
     
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