Uh oh Sig...

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by 45caldan, May 1, 2019.

  1. 45caldan

    45caldan

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    I don’t consider these Sigs or Glocks unsafe BUT I DO believe the old DA/SA guns are a little safER with their longer/heavier triggers in DA.
     
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  2. notorious_kfc

    notorious_kfc

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    Has the video of him fiddling with the pistol been released?

    Takes a weird duck to fool around with his pistol like that anywhere, but in a school?

    Still with a quality duty holster you’d still have to get a finger or article of clothing in there to fire when reholstering. Course this officer is obviously a dimwit to be engaged in this behavior

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  3. notorious_kfc

    notorious_kfc

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    Plus you can put a thumb over the hammer as you reholster.


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  4. TexasPOff

    TexasPOff "Tactical Elf"

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    As an officer I agree, it was poor judgement on his part, fiddling with his duty weapon while at a post.

    I also agree that IF he would have been truthful from the onset, there may have been some options to his punishment.

    Once he lied about the incident, everything comes off the table. I have no issues with his termination, as laying about this incident, taints his word on everything else he has done or would do as an officer.

    Lying is inexcusable behavior and even more so as an LE. Everything about our job is based on integrity, and lying violates the very fabric of those ideals.

    As a supervisor, the one thing I have always told my guys is, if you screw something up, be truthful about it, and I will stand in the gap with you and we can work the problem. If you lie about it, your on your own.


    TXPO
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  5. boilergonzo

    boilergonzo

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    I would be willing to bet it never sees the light of day. For one, the school, police department, and officer would not benefit from this becoming public. SIG would even suffer negative consequences for spreading video. While it would clear their firearm of suspicion, it would simultaneously vilify an officer. Not a good way to work with law enforcement agencies! Best to just leave it all alone!

    Secondly (and more importantly), this is a school video. While parents may sign blanket forms allowing the school to release photos of their children involved in school activities, doing so can create still create problems. In this case, the association (even if students are blurred) would likely be one the school would really, really prefer to avoid having to deal with. Keeping the school and children anonymous and NOT providing fodder that negatively illustrates school security/safety issues at the next school board meeting (and every one after, if a video appears on the internet) are probably their focus.

    It is probably archived in the officer's termination file, in the police and school investigative reports and historical records, the officer's defense group (assuming he had one), perhaps SIG (if they were included in the incident discovery process), and possibly at a court or legal entity, and that is probably about it.

    Things like this disappear fastest if there are no videos to pop up on social media posts for years to come! Memory hole this one, is surely the plan!
     
  6. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

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    A striker-fired pistol, as a design, shouldn't be less safe than a hammer-fired pistol. I stress the work 'shouldn't' as there have been some striker-fired pistols where flaws were discovered later. The Sig P320 was on of them, hence the trigger 'upgrade' which was a PC way of saying voluntary recall (when it should have been a mandatory recall).

    A DAO or DA/SA pistol can be considered inherently safer than a striker-fired pistol, not from a design point (if the striker-fired pistol was designed correctly) but rather an operational point. As I've mentioned here and elsewhere, and the poster above mentioned, you can (and should) place your thumb over the hammer (rear part of the slide in the case of a strike-fired pistol) when re-holstering the weapon. This, in the case of the hammer-fired pistol, gives the user a tactile feel if something has gone wrong and the trigger is traveling rearward. There is no tactile feel on a striker-fired pistol unless you've added an expensive after-market part. Since I grew up on revolvers and later DA/SA pistols the habit was ingrained to cover the hammer with the thumb while re-holstering. I do this even on striker-fired pistols like Sig or Glock out of habit. The same way I sweep on the thumb safety on such pistols even though they don't have one. So with a hammer-fired pistol you have a very simple, very tactile way to feel if an issue is happening that you don't have with a striker-fired pistol upon re-holstering (which is when many/most ND/AD occur). Doesn't make one superior or inferior to the other, simply different with one having a built in method of detection. With the mantra of quick out of the holster but slow going back into the holster it was an effective method of detecting problems before they occurred.

    And of course having a longer/heavier trigger pull over a shorter/lighter trigger pull is a factor as well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
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  7. 45caldan

    45caldan

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    Agreed; operational.
    Also agree slowly re-Holstering!
     
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  8. boilergonzo

    boilergonzo

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    The striker-fired exception would be a firearm like the XD's, which have a grip safety. I am not advocating for it, but it certainly is a feature one can utilize on that platform to similarly ensure the trigger cannot be pulled (push in by the slide, don't contact the grip safety). The safety options (heavier triggers, grip safeties, hammers, etc.) vary, and some add layers of potential protection, but only if incorporated into action. All can fail if attention wavers.

    Nothing comes to mind that would help negate "fiddling" with a firearm and pulling and re-holstering out of nervous habit, other than a "Barney Fife" (keep the bullet in your pocket!). :confused:
     
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  9. MD357

    MD357

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    It's also disconcerting that it seems he wasn't the only one lying. Seems there was a pretty good trail of misinformation.
     
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  10. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

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    Yes, always good to slowly re-holster. Allows one to get into the good habit of scanning the area for continued or additional threats. One of the things I often chide recruits about who feel rushed to do everything fast.
     
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  11. Mayhem like Me

    Mayhem like Me Semper Paratus

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    We issue them and some carry them In Uniform in the office they get an ankle and a belt holster .


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  12. Mayhem like Me

    Mayhem like Me Semper Paratus

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    So do we with no issues about 370 issued


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  13. Mayhem like Me

    Mayhem like Me Semper Paratus

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    Depends on the design but component failure, poor design, the list goes on and on.


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  14. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

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    Not unusual at all. Although our agency issues the Glock 21, we have certain units that are issued the Glock 30 or 26 as well. Smaller, plain clothes units like ASU (Alternative Sentencing Unit) and such. The P365 would fit into that role quite well.
     
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  15. Southswede

    Southswede

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    I'm sorry. I should have been more clear. I've never heard of any law enforcement agency issuing the P365 as a primary firearm for uniform patrol officers.
     
  16. Southswede

    Southswede

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    Kind of makes me wonder why they would lie to him like that. :D
     
  17. Scrappy

    Scrappy

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  18. Southswede

    Southswede

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  19. quantico

    quantico 1911 lover Millennium Member

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    I am glad that despite all the issues that came out of this.. that nobody got severely injured or worse because of a bullet hitting them.

    I am not saying any part of this was a good example of gun safety... but the standard rules of all guns are loaded and dont aim them at anything you dont want to destroy was in place. I guess dont play with loaded guns could be added.. but i am hoping that would be a small group of people that need to hear that.
     
  20. MD357

    MD357

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    Seems he could find work in certain parts of Florida?
     
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