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Ugh, constant failures to feed.

Discussion in 'The 10 Ring' started by jumbopanda, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. jumbopanda

    jumbopanda

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    My G20SF has one or two failures to feed during each 15rd magazine, usually during the second or third round fired. It occurs with all six of my 15 round magazines but not my 10 round magazines. The mags had the older 10 coil springs, which I suspected may have been the culprit, so I replaced them all with Wolff +10% springs. After firing about 300 rounds at the range today, I did not see the problem getting any better.

    I'm also using a Wolff guide rod and spring. I had a 19lb spring in it during the last range trip and a 20lb in it this time. Both had the exact same issues. During the end of the trip today, I popped the factory recoil spring assembly back in and fired one full mag, plus a few extra rounds with no issues. I would have fired more but I ran out of 10mm ammo at that point.

    All of the rounds fired were my handloads consisting of a Zero 200gr FMJ with 10.7gr Blue Dot, which chronos at around 1160 fps out of my stock barrel. I would say these are full powered loads, but slightly weaker than Underwood and the like.

    Has anyone else had lots of failures to feed in their G20s? What type of recoil spring assembly are you using?
     
  2. cdog533

    cdog533 Zombie Killer

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    I switched to a lighter-than-stock recoil spring in my G30 after having exactly the same issues with the stock spring and with a little heavier spring.

    Works good now. Would suggest you try the same and post up results.
     

  3. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    Not sure this is what you are looking for, but I run a G20SF with a captive 22lb flat wire ISMI spring on SS guide rod, and get flawless feed regardless of load (from light 40S&W to 200gr WFNGC at 1200fps to 1300+fps 180gr jacketed) and also regardless if using 10 or 15 round magazines. These same loads also feed fine using my stock RSA. The only difference is when I start running on the high end (above 1250fps with a 180gr round), I do get some frame battering, hence the heavier ISMI spring).

    What kind of failures are you seeing?
     
  4. Planetcat

    Planetcat

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    I get FTF with heavier bullets (220 gr+) and a 19 lb. wolf spring and tungsten guide rod. Putting it back to stock seems to make it happen less frequently, but doesn't fix it entirely. I may hon yo an even lighter spring, since I don't shoot it that much. Oh yeah, it's my g29.
     
  5. Mountain10mm

    Mountain10mm

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    Finally!!!!! Someone else with the same problem. This happened to me years ago and I have yet to figure out the exact cause as it didn't matter which magazine or even if I used a G20 or G20SF. The problem was always there; just varied more or less depending on the variable. I know this though, it only happened with full powered loads (180 or 200 grain > 1200fps). If the loads under 1200fps (chronographed) I was OK with either gun and magazine.

    I know it's counterintuitive to some, but a stiffer recoil spring only makes the problem worse. I put Wolff +10% springs in my magazines...and it helped, but didn't solve the problem. I think the slide needs to be slightly heavier to slow it down going backwards AND forwards. The problem also didn't happen if I used a death grip and rapid fired - I mean so tight I could feel the grip flex in my hands - not practical. I even tried a match barrel and that made the problem even worse.

    Never found a solution other than to get a 1911 10mm that I can shoot my full power loads out of. Try a lighter load and see if it makes a difference. Use the stock or lighter recoil spring too. Someday I'm going to get a different slide and see if that makes a difference, maybe add a few ounces of lead to it. Until then...best of luck and know that you're not alone.
     
  6. happie2shoot

    happie2shoot

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    I always hear about glock oem reliability but have had jamming too.
    In the two g20s, g4 and g3sf I have had nose dive jams and the nose
    hits the left side of the chamber.

    One of the most reliable 10mms I have has been a g30 with a LW g29
    4.6'' barrel in it, I just filed the extractor pad down .019'' and now it works
    with 45 and 10mm.
     
  7. jumbopanda

    jumbopanda

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    What type of guide rod did you use with your stiffer spring?
     
  8. Mountain10mm

    Mountain10mm

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    Captured Wilson or something like that. It wasn't the stock rod. I actually tried several.
     
  9. GotFour

    GotFour

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    Gen III G-20: I'm shooting various 200grn reloads at just shy of 1,300fps, fairly hot. I was having issues with the slide locking back and not picking up the last round in the magazine. The extra power Wolff mag spring helped a bit but did not totally solve the issue. 19,20 and 22 pound springs with Wolff guide rod did not solve the issue......24# Wolff spring with Wolff guide rod and Wolff extra power mag springs.... Bingo!!!, problem solved! She runs 100%, less frame battering and brass no longer ejecting into the next county. :supergrin:
     
  10. orangeride

    orangeride

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    I was having the same problems in my 20sf. I thought it was my gun untill I picked up two other g20's and had the same problem. The problem went away with 10rnd mags. I discovered the problem when I handed my gun to a novice shooter and they proceeded to shoot the rest of the day without issue. What I discoved is that because of my grip style and hand strength I was able to hold the gun very tight causing high slide speed ftfeed. Wolf mags sprigs helped, but what fixed it was throwing in a fairly used oem RSA and my problems went away. With a brandnew oem RSA and heiver springs I was getting ftfeed every mag.
     
  11. happie2shoot

    happie2shoot

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    Thanks for the info and could you share your data to get
    the 1300:wavey:
     
  12. GotFour

    GotFour

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    Too many variables and too many eyes not as responsible as yours to be publishing reloading data on the upper end of the scale. But I'll offer this......with the caveat that I don't recommend a damn thing!
    - Pistol: GenIII G-20 24# Wolff recoil spring and Wolf recoil rod and extra pwr mag. springs.
    - Powder: 800-X, It doesn't meter well for progressive reloaders, I hand weigh and inspect powder level of every round. Load:IMR lists 8.4 grains of 800-X as max at 1,190fps which is a pretty mild 10MM round. I worked up from there a tenth or two of a grain at a time using a chronograph and watching brass/primers for pressure signs. For this exercise use only FULLY SUPPORTED CHAMBER BARRELS in GLOCK PISTOLS ONLY. I have KKM's and a Lone Wolf. With the same final load I achieved 1,300fps out of my 6" KKM, 1,274 out of the 5" KKM and 1,262fps out of my 4.6" Lone Wolf.
    - Brass: Starline of course
    - Primers: CCI LPP #300
    - Bullets: 200grn all, Hornady XTP's, FNFMJ(Hornady), HardCast Gas Check WFNGC(Double-Tap) The WFNGC is my choice for big game hunting (Deer)
    - Cartridge OAL 1.26"
    - Lee tapper crimp die to finish off round.

    Here she be, 25yd group 5" KKM, Trijicon reflex........easily "minute of Deer".

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2014
  13. jumbopanda

    jumbopanda

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    Whelp, I've officially tried all of my recoil spring options including: factory, Wolff 17, 19, 20, and 22. And I added Wolff mag springs as well. The problem remains exactly the same. This is the first Glock that I definitely do not trust my life with.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
  14. Mountain10mm

    Mountain10mm

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    Great pictures. That looks a little different than the problems I have (talking just guns here LOL). It looks like the slide is catching the rear of the cartridge but it the bullet is hanging up somewhere on the feed ramp. Is that correct? My issue is the slide actually misses the rear of the cartridge and hits the case about half way between the rim and mouth.

    Does it happen when anyone shoots your gun or just you? Have you tried other ammo? I had a similar problem when I loaded 200gr. lead cast bullets. (Made by Double Tap) Anyway, I loaded them to an OAL of 1.26" which is what I have done with all my loads, and the magazine and gun jammed, very similar to what you have. Because the metplat was wider than normal (not obviously so) and the shape of the ogive had slightly less taper, the bullets were hanging up slightly in the magazine. I reseated the bullets to an OAL of 1.24 inches (may have been slightly less can't remember) and the problem when away.

    I would try over the counter ammo and or seating your bullets a little deeper and see what happens. If the problem goes away it's the ammo. If it's still there, I'm inclined to think, I don't know what I'm talking about.

    Good luck.
     
  15. jumbopanda

    jumbopanda

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    Actually many of my FTFs also occur with the slide riding over the rim of the cartridge as you described, but I didn't take pictures of those.

    I started with 1.26" OAL but reduced it to 1.25", and the problem persisted.

    When I first got the gun a while back, I loaded and fired around 100rd of weaker ammo with plated bullets and never had a problem. But more recently I decided to do full power load development and these rounds have been giving me nothing but trouble. The thing is, I'm not interested in shooting lighter loads because that defeats the purpose of 10mm. I also have a G21SF slide assembly, so I might as well just shoot .45acp if the 10mm doesn't want to cycle properly with full powered ammo.

    I have not had other people shoot this gun, but I don't think that should really matter. I also have a G34, G35 (converted to .357SIG), G33, and G21 and all of those are pretty much 100% reliable with a variety of ammo after thousands of rounds fired. Life's too short for a finicky Glock. :p
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
  16. Mountain10mm

    Mountain10mm

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    I understand about shooting weaker loads, what's the point. I would push the bullets in a little farther and see if the problem persists. I was amazed at how little it took to jam up the magazine and feeding route with a wider than normal ogive. You can also try another brand of full power loads. Just because it's a Glock doesn't mean that it doesn't have favorite rounds.

    If the slide is hitting the cartridge mid-case, I have NO idea. That's the problem I'm having.
     
  17. GotFour

    GotFour

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    .....assuming you tried different magazines, you might want to try polishing your feed ramp and breach face. You can get a mirror finish with one of those Dremel polishing donuts and some polishing compound in no time. That donut is a perfect fit for polishing the chamber too. Is that a stock barrel or?

    In any case the first rule of trouble shooting is to check the easy/cheap sh%t first.....Lots o folks have found their 20's to be grip sensitive with full house loads, let someone else shoot it.
     
  18. cdog533

    cdog533 Zombie Killer

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    Try a lighter recoil spring. That helped my G30 stop the same issue.
     
  19. orangeride

    orangeride

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    I 2nd that. My 20 sf had problems with hot loads untill I put in a well used oem spring. Very bad issues with new oem and heavier springs.
     
  20. danelonson

    danelonson

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    Lighter recoil spring=More frame battering