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I find it hilarious when liberals warn us about the U.S. debt.
 

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I worry about my grandkids -

We have been borrowing from the future to boost our standard of living - and at some point people will need to reduce their standard of living so that it all evens out -

I guess if you live during the good times and are dead when the hard times come you may not care -

But again - I care about my grandkids future -
If your grandkids get an education in a field that is economically in demand, make good choices in life and are fortunate with their health they will most likely do fine. Every one of my nieces and nephews are doing far better than I was at their age and I see no reason for that not to continue.
 

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If your grandkids get an education in a field that is economically in demand, make good choices in life and are fortunate with their health they will most likely do fine. Every one of my nieces and nephews are doing far better than I was at their age and I see no reason for that not to continue.
Strong work ethics, smart career choices, and a little bit of luck will continue to pay off.

It doesn't change the fact that if we don't get the deficit and debt under control, an increasing percentage of their gross pay will go to pay off our reckless spending.
 

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Strong work ethics, smart career choices, and a little bit of luck will continue to pay off.

It doesn't change the fact that if we don't get the deficit and debt under control, an increasing percentage of their gross pay will go to pay off our reckless spending.
The deficit was almost 27 percent of GDP in 1943. Today it's about 9-10 percentage points lower.

BTW since (as someone else pointed out) 70 percent of government spending is mandatory what do you consider to be "reckless" spending?
 

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The deficit was almost 27 percent of GDP in 1943. Today it's about 9-10 percentage points lower.

BTW since (as someone else pointed out) 70 percent of government spending is mandatory what do you consider to be "reckless" spending?
In 1943, WWII

IMHO, spending that enables generations of people to be unproductive and rely on my taxes is reckless.

Farm payments for farmers (mom and pop and corporate) to not plant is reckless. Farm price supports are the antithesis of a free market.

I'm sure each person in this thread can come up with others.

A billion here, another there and pretty soon it adds up.

Do you not believe any of our spending is reckless?
 

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No one cares. Americans stand with their hands out waiting for their party of choice to fill them up. They only get upset when they see the "others" getting more than them. Kind of like petulant children.
 

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soon we will be Argentina, Venezuela, Europe...only good secure well paying job will be ingovernment with outsized benefits
 

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If your grandkids get an education in a field that is economically in demand, make good choices in life and are fortunate with their health they will most likely do fine. Every one of my nieces and nephews are doing far better than I was at their age and I see no reason for that not to continue.
So they will be productive tax donkeys while millions of others live off of their efforts and produce little or nothing. I don't consider that doing fine.

How old are your nieces and nephews?


My grandkids are 4.5, 2.5 and due in March -



When I went to college (graduated in 1980) an hour of tuition was $16 -- I was making around $6 an hour - so work less than 3 hours, pay for one hour of college credit - a semester of 16 hours would take less than 43 hours.

Tuition at the same university is now $311 an hour - and I bet the kid delivering pizza (how I worked my way through college) is not making much more than $12 an hour --

So 26 hours of work to pay for one hour - or 415 hours to pay for a semester.

I am ignoring taxes - but if I included them it would take 10X more hours that it took me.

Or look at it a better way --

To pay for one hour of tuition I had to work 2.67 hours at $6 an hour

For a kid today to work 2.67 hours to pay for an hour of tuition they would need to earn $116.63 an hour -

$242,500 a year is a pretty nice wage - not many kids earn this much while trying to work their way through college - and really if they could why bother with college?

Stop and think about why is it so much harder to work your way through college now -

Then figure out what it will be like if we keep on the same track - when my grandkids get to college.
 

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The deficit was almost 27 percent of GDP in 1943. Today it's about 9-10 percentage points lower.

BTW since (as someone else pointed out) 70 percent of government spending is mandatory what do you consider to be "reckless" spending?

You can't honestly use 1943 as a base year - and say the 16% deficit we have now is not that big of a deal VS the 27% then.

After WWII the US was positioned to grow like crazy - and a few years later we were running a surplus.

Is anyone predicting that we will grow the economy so fast we will soon be having a budget surplus instead of a deficit?

Plus you need to consider the starting point - in 1943 the national debt was only $137 billion - GDP was $203 billion - National debt is now greater than GDP -

After WWII USA was in position to lead the world and nobody else was even close to our power -

Now we have competition from many countries and then seem hungry while we are acting entitled -
 
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Do you remember the U.S.S.R.? Who every thought they would fall. The largest country in the world. A world leading country. A modern country. One of the Top Six. A prime member of the U.N. They failed from within. What went wrong? I can tell you they went Broke. I predict the days of the U.S. are limited and the end is coming. As of this date we are around $30,000,000,000,000 in debt. We owe both China and Russia billions of dollars. All this debt is being financed by debt, doesn't sound right does it, but it is true. The government sales bonds and notes and debt instruments on a daily bases to keep thing afloat and running. Every July the House and Senate have to vote to extend the debt limit of the country just to cover operating expenses. Businesses can not operate on debt, there must be a positive cash flow. The U.S. Government does not take in enough cash to pay its debts, therefore, it has to borrow money to stay afloat. Our money is not supported by the federal government, that why it states on each bill: Note. It is a bill of debt. Remember the Boy Scout motto: Be Prepared and hold on.
They thought Rome would last forever. The USA is no different.
 

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So they will be productive tax donkeys while millions of others live off of their efforts and produce little or nothing. I don't consider that doing fine.

How old are your nieces and nephews?


My grandkids are 4.5, 2.5 and due in March -



When I went to college (graduated in 1980) an hour of tuition was $16 -- I was making around $6 an hour - so work less than 3 hours, pay for one hour of college credit - a semester of 16 hours would take less than 43 hours.

Tuition at the same university is now $311 an hour - and I bet the kid delivering pizza (how I worked my way through college) is not making much more than $12 an hour --

So 26 hours of work to pay for one hour - or 415 hours to pay for a semester.

I am ignoring taxes - but if I included them it would take 10X more hours that it took me.

Or look at it a better way --

To pay for one hour of tuition I had to work 2.67 hours at $6 an hour

For a kid today to work 2.67 hours to pay for an hour of tuition they would need to earn $116.63 an hour -

$242,500 a year is a pretty nice wage - not many kids earn this much while trying to work their way through college - and really if they could why bother with college?

Stop and think about why is it so much harder to work your way through college now -

Then figure out what it will be like if we keep on the same track - when my grandkids get to college.
When I went to college, any increase in financial aid was matched by an increase in tuition. It is a subsidized scam.
 

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There are so many "distortions" in our economy, that a true free market would work out in a matter of time....................unfortunately, it will not be allowed to.
 

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I blame all the politicians equally.
Trump's business plan was always based on leverage and default if necessary. I didn't expect that to change when he became president.

The fact is we are here now and need to take the first steps to fixing it.
According to the NYT's illegally obtained tax returns, Trump made $497 Million from the Apprentice show so he probably walked away from another $200M to become President. Trump ran for President to help America, the opposite of the typical politician who runs for office to become rich.

If the Democrats wanted to fix the budget Trump would have worked hard to make it happen.

Today in 2020 we know for sure the career politicians do not care about the budget. Those in power are the first to get the printed money to buy up all the hard assets before the inflation which always ruins the small people.

There is no sense even discussing it. 2009 was bad but shutting down the entire country over a flu virus then paying $ Trillions to keep the economy afloat by paying people not to produce anything is Twilight Zone territory.
 

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There is no sense even discussing it. 2009 was bad but shutting down the entire country over a flu virus then paying $ Trillions to keep the economy afloat by paying people not to produce anything is Twilight Zone territory.
"Just the flu"
 

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We couldn't even get enough support to back the Ryan plan; Which cut little, just controlled growth, and relied on economic expansion to balance the budget.

Austerity ain't happening, and this country will hit the wall at full speed.
 

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"Just the flu"
President Trump recovered much faster than I did when I had the regular flu a few years back and I was about 20 years younger than Trump. It took me about a week maybe more and I can see how people end up dying from it.

There is something more to this weird flu shutdown than they are telling us. Public service announcements would have sufficed. They used it to bail out already weak government favored businesses and to increase control.

I find it interesting the PA Turnpike went 100% cashless due to the Corona virus but made the change permanent laying off 500 toll takers. Seems the Corona virus was an excuse to go cashless and all that entails.
 

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A big part of the problem can be summed up in one word.

ENTITLEMENT


 

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In 1943, WWII

IMHO, spending that enables generations of people to be unproductive and rely on my taxes is reckless.

Farm payments for farmers (mom and pop and corporate) to not plant is reckless. Farm price supports are the antithesis of a free market.

I'm sure each person in this thread can come up with others.

A billion here, another there and pretty soon it adds up.

Do you not believe any of our spending is reckless?
Can't disagree with any of your examples of reckless spending. The OP requested we keep politics out of it so I will simply say in a republic we get the government we vote for.
 
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So they will be productive tax donkeys while millions of others live off of their efforts and produce little or nothing. I don't consider that doing fine.

How old are your nieces and nephews?


My grandkids are 4.5, 2.5 and due in March -



When I went to college (graduated in 1980) an hour of tuition was $16 -- I was making around $6 an hour - so work less than 3 hours, pay for one hour of college credit - a semester of 16 hours would take less than 43 hours.

Tuition at the same university is now $311 an hour - and I bet the kid delivering pizza (how I worked my way through college) is not making much more than $12 an hour --

So 26 hours of work to pay for one hour - or 415 hours to pay for a semester.

I am ignoring taxes - but if I included them it would take 10X more hours that it took me.

Or look at it a better way --

To pay for one hour of tuition I had to work 2.67 hours at $6 an hour

For a kid today to work 2.67 hours to pay for an hour of tuition they would need to earn $116.63 an hour -

$242,500 a year is a pretty nice wage - not many kids earn this much while trying to work their way through college - and really if they could why bother with college?

Stop and think about why is it so much harder to work your way through college now -

Then figure out what it will be like if we keep on the same track - when my grandkids get to college.
You're making a good case for reforming the way higher education is run. Again, not wanting to insert politics into this discussion, but how do most of the higher education professors and administrators vote?
 

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You're making a good case for reforming the way higher education is run. Again, not wanting to insert politics into this discussion, but how do most of the higher education professors and administrators vote?
I started college in 1976 - both parties have been in charge back and forth - since then -

You must be thinking there is a big difference between D & R on spending money and increasing the debt - you would be wrong -

The only time any of them complain about deficits is when the other party is in charge.

Pay attention -

When GOP is in charge they cut taxes and increase spending which increases the debt

When the Dems are in charge they raise tax rates (but collect very little revenue) and increase spending a little more than the GOP but still keep the debt growing
 
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