Tul vs Brown Bear vs Wolf 9mm Question

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by jbglock, May 28, 2016.

  1. jbglock

    jbglock Manos Arriba

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    I ran a test of 100 rounds of Brown Bear and 100 rounds of Wolf ammo through 2 of my Glock pistols (34 and 17) today.
    Aside from being noticeably more accurate the Wolf 9mm functioned perfectly through the entire 100 rounds. I didn't chrono it but the Wolf also had noticeably more recoil which I liked.
    The Brown Bear failed to fire 7 times out of 100 rounds with a very good primer strike evident. Each of the 7 rounds fired after a second go but that is a hassle I don't want even with practice ammo.
    I was just about to order a thousand round case of Wolf but I just noticed my favorite retailer has Tul back in stock. So my question is how does Tul do in comparison if anyone knows?
     
  2. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    Go to wal mart and grab a couple of boxes to try out.
     

  3. cougar_ml

    cougar_ml

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    I've only fired a few boxes in the past but all fired and ejected properly from a p7m8
     
  4. TacticalDesire

    TacticalDesire

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    Tula is typically worse than wolf but people have had good and bad experiences with both.
     
  5. Merkavaboy

    Merkavaboy Code-7A KUZ769

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    Keep in mind that Wolf Performance (WPA) is just an importer of the ammo.

    Currently their 9mm (both the black box and Military Classic) is made by JSC Barnaul, same with the Silver/Brown/Golden Bear 9mm. You can tell by the stylized initials Бпз (BPZ) on the headstamp.

    I have several boxes of the new(ish) Tulammo in 9mm, 38Spl and 357Mag but I haven't tried it yet. As mentioned before, try a box or two of the Tula ammo before you buy in bulk.
     
  6. 2afreedom

    2afreedom

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    Box O Truth did a test and found Wolf to be as accurate, if not more so, than domestic range ammo. I'm sure some guns will not like it, I ran thousands of rounds of 9mm through my Glocks before I began reloading. I never wore out an extractor and it shot as straight as I could. It's dirty, but range ammo generally is. Try a box-you might be surprised. You can get it online now for about $170 per thousand. At the price it's at now, it's hard to justify reloading.
     
  7. Warp

    Warp ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    Among cheap steel case/bimetal jacketed commie ammo I have always preferred Wolf. I don't even pay attention to who is making it at the time, it seems to be the best...and Tula the worst.

    I have shot quite a bit of all through Glocks in the past, perfectly fine range fodder for all, never anything like you report, but given a choice....yeah....Wolf
     
  8. bac1023

    bac1023

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    Man, I can't stand any of that junk.

    I know Tula is terrible though. Even the Tula brass ammo sucks.
     
  9. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Brown Bear is the worst of the Russian stuff, IMO. It's always had a bad smell, at least when I tried it.
     
  10. Merkavaboy

    Merkavaboy Code-7A KUZ769

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    You crack me up Warp!

    Who do you think was the earliest Russian ammo maker to supply Wolf Performance? Tula.
    Which Russian maker was the first to supply Wolf with the Polyformance coated cases? Yep. Tula again.
     
  11. arrtvandelay

    arrtvandelay

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    Bear pistol ammo is no good in my experience, the Brown Bear 9mm smells like cat piss and the Silver Bear stuff is underpowered. Bear ammo in rifle calibers, is awesome. That's just my subjective opinion.

    I've never had issues with Wolf 9mm. My Glocks eat it up. I find Tula 9mm to be woefully underpowered, like Silver Bear 9mm. Tula is the only brand of 9mm ammo I've seen choke my g19s. My 19s can bare the Bears (ha), but I've run into more than 1 bad box of 9mm Tula. If I'm buying steelcased pistol ammo, which I very rarely do these days since brass cased factory ammo is still reasonably priced and available, I certainly prefer Wolf over all others.
     
  12. Warp

    Warp ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    When was that?

    How has been supplying the Wolf ammo over the course of the past 10 years?

    Let's find out what Wolf ammo I have shot (...if any) that was manufactured by Tula.
     
  13. Merkavaboy

    Merkavaboy Code-7A KUZ769

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    The early WOLF lacquered ammo was headstamped TCW (Tula Cartridge Works). Later on TCW was supplying ammo with the cases stamped WOLF, still with the lacquered cases. Then came the grey polymer coated cases they called "polyformance", still with the WOLF stamp. Somewhere along the way there was some type of dispute between Wolf and Tula and Wolf stopped buying their ammo. At one time Ulyanovsk was providing ammo for their Military Classic line (headstamp was a circular reversed double arrow design).

    Currently Wolf's steel cased ammo is made by Barnaul which is stamped with "Бпз" (BPZ). I don't know when this change was made but probably was within the last 5 years or so.
     
  14. Warp

    Warp ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    You need to quantify what "early on" and "then" mean. When did Tula make ammo for Wolf/what ammo was it?
     
  15. fortyofforty

    fortyofforty

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    Damn. I thought this was a thread about which 9mm is best for hunting Brown Bears and Wolves. Never mind.
     
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  16. Merkavaboy

    Merkavaboy Code-7A KUZ769

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    Sorry but I don't know an exact timeline of Wolf's product line. From some quick research it appears that Wolf started importing ammo around 2000. This is when you'd find the cases stamped TCW. I don't know when they switched to the WOLF headstamp. Any pistol and rifle calibers stamped WOLF was made by Tula.

    The calibers/cartridges that are stamped WOLF that I have in my collection are: .380, 9x19, 9x18, .40, .45, .30 Carbine, .223, 5.45x39, 7.62x39 & 7.62x54R. I have samples that are both lacquered and with the Polyformance polymer coating.
     
  17. Warp

    Warp ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    It's funny that you try to call me out on saying two brands are different when it turns out the two brands probably were different. I didn't start shooting until right when I joined this forum in 2005, so it seems the Wolf I have purchased and shot, and the Tula I have purchased and shot, were probably different. Imagine that
     
  18. Merkavaboy

    Merkavaboy Code-7A KUZ769

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    My apologies if you felt that I was "calling you out", which was not my intention.

    It's been my observations over the years that many people think that companies like Wolf make their own ammo when in fact they are just importers of ammo and they often change up who they buy ammo from. I just found it humorous that you said you liked Wolf ammo but don't like Tula when there's a good chance that if you shot Wolf you were probably shooting Tula made ammo without even knowing it
     
  19. Samuel_Hoggson

    Samuel_Hoggson

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    As noted, importer is not manufacturer. The larger issue, accounting for much diversity of opinion concerning Russian steel-case, is number of manufacturing plants and the lot to lot variability within a given plant.

    Best answer, regardless of ammo source/history/eieio was given by fnfalman. It is the standard advice I've always given concerning Russian steel-case anything. Buy a small quantity. Try in your firearm. If you really like it, go back and get a metric crap-ton of the stuff. If you don't like it, keep searching.

    A few examples. My first 9mm steel bought few decades ago was Ulyanovsk 124s. Bought something like 10 cases and ran about all of it through the Uzi. Stuff was dirty and underpowered. Worse, shot to shot velocity variation was close to 100 fps, and you could hear/feel the ROF irregularity.

    Few years later found some Wolf (probably Tula) 124s that remain (to this date) the nicest subgun ammo I've ever used. Now rarely seen. Stuff is hot, fast, and 100%. Wish I'd bought 20 cases.

    Wolf 115 gr Tula has been pretty good, as has the Military Classic.

    Here's another most have not seen - Novobirsk 115s were at AIM for a short time. What's appealing is a very uniform, but low, velocity. It runs the G19 perfectly and is as accurate as any 115 - maybe moreso - I've used. Best of all, it is easily the cleanest burning 9mm ball I've used. Have a couple cases: seems a better fit for the Glocks than the Uzi (really slow ROF).

    With pushfeed ARs steel case impact loading of extractors on chambering is a valid concern, if greatly overrated given the price of an extractor. I've broken two over about 26k steel. In theory, the Uzi extractors should suffer the same way but after about 20k steel am not holding my breath. I don't know why extractor wear even deserves mention with respect to Glocks, as rims do not snap over the hook on chambering. I bought the Apex extractor more to solve a BTF issue. It does make ejection more uniform, but BTF is mostly a technique matter - for me, anyway.
     
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  20. Warp

    Warp ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    I am aware Wolf is not a manufacturer. The most common example is Wolf Match Target/Match Extra in the .22lr world being the same as the SK Standard+ and Rifle Match.

    It still seems as though I have never in my decade of shooting bought Wolf ammo that was made by Tula. There is a clear difference in my experience (and others, check the lucky gunner steel .223 test as an example we all know) between Wolf and Tula.