Trooper Shooting Home Owner Found Justified

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by Ramjet38, Feb 12, 2017.

  1. Ramjet38

    Ramjet38 Mentally Frozen

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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2017
  2. ChiefWPD

    ChiefWPD

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    I understand that it's difficult to comprehend how the law works in such cases. You have to look to Graham v. Connor (a 1989 Supreme Court ruling) to understand how such matters are viewed as a matter of law. The situation was looked at from the eyes of a reasonable police officer and their belief of the objective reality of the situation at the moment they used force.

    Just put out a book on the subject of the police use of force; Use of Force in Modern Policing (Amazon). Our nation has evolved over the years from basically a "self-policing" society, to the hiring of individuals (law officers) tasked with enforcing our laws and protecting the general public.
     
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  3. willie_pete

    willie_pete NRA Life Member

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    I wonder how he will fare in the civil trial?

    wp
     
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  4. ChiefWPD

    ChiefWPD

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    Different standard. Preponderance of the evidence carries the day. As for the Trooper, he will be unscathed as he will be held harmless and the citizenry will pick up the tab. That's our current system.
     
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  5. willie_pete

    willie_pete NRA Life Member

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    Sounds like a lot of blame to go around. I suspect some of the deeper pockets will pay a lot.

    I am not sure I would be as understanding as he was about getting shot in the groin. That's getting a little too close to home.

    wp
     
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  6. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Aimed a shotgun and a handgun? That has to be difficult to do.
     
  7. racerford

    racerford

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    I am surprised a person of that age survived.

    I feel bad for both the home owner and the trooper. You cannot trust that people pounding on you door saying they are police, are in fact police. Police responding to a 911 hang up cant trust that the person saying there was no 911 call are no bad people doing bad things. The trooper, while being cleared and actions are understandable, probably does not feel good about what happened.

    City may have to pay for the mistake. With land lines, the police could be pretty sure of the location of a call. With cellphones, not really. That is one reason why I still have a landline.
     
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  8. Maxx702

    Maxx702 Rottweilers making America great again!

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    I would like to know the facts (not necessarily what the newspaper said) on how clearly the police announced themselves before passing judgement.
     
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  9. ChiefWPD

    ChiefWPD

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    Quite correct. Requires prudence on the part of both parties.
     
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  10. RenegadeGlocker

    RenegadeGlocker SuperOwner

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    Was home owner found to be justified for shooting (grazing) the Trooper? Or is he facing attempted murder charges.

    Seems this was a giant clusterphuck, and neither the Troopers or the home owner did anything unreasonable, one would hope nobody is getting charged.

    Has the county dispatcher been fired?
     
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  11. Random

    Random Banned

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    Two ways to read the title. My ridiculous brain chose the less likely. Don't think I've ever seen the chips fall that way.
     
  12. Ramjet38

    Ramjet38 Mentally Frozen

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    I was wondering this myself. I also wonder if the Trooper has tried to make any apologetic gesture to the Homeowner. I understand the Trooper was in a very bad situation not knowing of other circumstances so he must feel really bad about it too. Bad for both parties.
     
  13. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    If someone is outside my home in the middle of the night - and I think they are up to no good - maybe even wanting to break in - rob & kill me

    I wouldn't open my door and try to shoot them

    Seems like you would be better of taking cover inside and let them come to you


    I don't know standard police procedure - but if they show up at a 911 hang up call - and everything looks quiet - would they kick in the door - come in the house and start going room to room?

    I sure hope not - because that sounds like a totally stupid procedure.

    In the mean time my wife would be calling 911 and I assume when they show up that things would be sorted out without anyone getting shot.

    ---------------------
    I think there is a big difference between outside my home and inside my home

    If this would have been a no knock warrant being served then I could see the old guy going for and shooting his gun - but that is a totally different situation.
     
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  14. RenegadeGlocker

    RenegadeGlocker SuperOwner

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    I found this odd:

    "Both troopers ran to a patrol car and drove away to wait for backup."

    I can understand retreating back to car and waiting, but driving away? WTF. What if someone was really in danger?
     
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  15. RenegadeGlocker

    RenegadeGlocker SuperOwner

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    And WTF is this:

    "One of the troopers also shined a flashlight on the other trooper’s uniform to show they were state police, authorities said."

    What kind of tactic is that? I would beat the phucker silly for lighting me up as a target.
     
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  16. Jamie Haley

    Jamie Haley

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    I did a quick read of the article. Am extremely puzzled now, I am. Extremely.

    First, I find it amazing that an old man (76 years old) with three gunshot wounds (two to the chest) was able to walk out to the lawn:
    Inside the home, Sykes called 911 and said he had been shot by "prowlers.” He then placed his shotgun on the front porch and walked to the front lawn, where other troopers who had responded handcuffed him until paramedics arrived.​

    And this part got me all confused:
    The transfer was quickly canceled but came through to Vineland as a call that lasted two seconds, the Attorney General’s Office said. A Vineland dispatcher interpreted the call as a 911 hangup, looked up the location — which came up as the cell tower next to Sykes’ home — and alerted state police.​

    How did Sykes' address (or phone number) come up?
    -- Did Sykes' address pop up just because it was the nearest habitat to the cell tower location?
    -- Did a database application display Sykes' address for the cell tower location? If so, that software application had got some serious bugs in it.

    So many of these kinds of mistakes -- LE showing up at the wrong address -- have been made in the past, that I'd have thought that the official procedures would involve at least a double-check to verify that the LE have the correct address and are actually at that physical address. Especially when doing this in the middle of the night.

    The same mistakes, with some changes in flavoring, are constantly being made. After all these pricey lawsuits, you'd think that procedures would've been updated by now. But maybe not since it's only the taxpayers' monies that's getting paid out.

    What really riled me up was this:
    It is standard procedure in New Jersey for the Attorney General’s Office to investigate whether a police officer was justified in using deadly force. In a statement Friday, the office said, “Mr. Sykes was armed, did not comply with troopers’ commands, and approached to within a few feet of the troopers with his shotgun and revolver.”​

    BUT Mr. Sykes was inside his own home! The LE wasn't supposed to even be there. No crime was being committed at that home at that time. There was no suspicious activity occurring within that home. The only suspicious activity possibly occurring there was that of the LE officers.

    In general, I support those in blue. But when I see stupid **** like this ... Guess it's the lack of proper training, maybe.

    ----------------------------
    ADDED: From another news article (that was linked to at the end of the OP's article) was this tidbit:
    Kaser said Thursday he believed the original call bounced off a cellphone tower next to Sykes' home before disconnecting. Kaser said the call was made from within Cumberland County, but more than a mile from Sykes' house.​

    Was the dispatcher and the LE officers that arrived at the home aware of that info that the caller's location was more than a mile from Sykes' house?
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
  17. willie_pete

    willie_pete NRA Life Member

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    I have had a SO Deputy drive down my long, lonely driveway @ 10:30 PM one night to tell me a deviated prevert had moved across the street. He turned on his strobe lights and I put the gun away.

    Seemed like a rational move on both our parts.

    wp
     
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  18. Ramjet38

    Ramjet38 Mentally Frozen

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    You made good observations. I find it strange too, but i'm not a cop, but if they're trained that way then they may want to do a little revisiting of their syllabus.
     
  19. TeaDub

    TeaDub

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    Murphy's Law sure stacked the deck on this situation. I'm glad that no one was killed.
     
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  20. Grabbrass

    Grabbrass

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    I had a case (in another life, as a prosecutor) where a prostitute took two taps of 45acp point blank to the chest. When I say point blank, I mean close enough for burned clothing. She walked a 1/2 mile to a convenience store, called 911 on the pay phone, and smoked cigs till the ambulance got there.


    From the article:
    "Miscommunications among emergency dispatchers ..."

    That's a kind way to say negligence. LEO's wouldn't have been at that home if there had been no negligence. Officers may be blameless, but someone screwed the pooch in putting them there.
     
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