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Thumb Safety in 1911 for Recoil Management

Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by Putok-Glock, Mar 9, 2007.

  1. Putok-Glock

    Putok-Glock

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    Hi BoGs,

    Shooters riding their shooting thumb on the thumb safety are not unanimous on this: In a firing grip, the thumb pushing down some pressure on the the thumb safety helps alot in recovering faster from recoil, resulting in a faster follow up shot when needed.

    My present grip is that my thumb just rests w/o pressure on top of the thumb safety. I tried the above style but I feel awkward specially on my trigger control. Maybe Im just not used to it and some practice might make me feel comfortable.

    But is this really worth trying? How effective is it in managing recoil?

    Im a newbie in this and still in the process of developing my technic. Your opinions/ideas/experience on this will be of great help.

    TIA.
     
  2. isuzu

    isuzu

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    In my experience, placing my thumb on the (thumb) safety is better than placing it under the safety. There is a tendency to engage the safety when your thumb is under it.

    The grip also feels secure.

    The best way is to experiment and choose what technique suits you.
     

  3. revo

    revo

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    won't putting hand pressure on the thumb safety torque the gun counter-clockwise ?

    I'll try it this weekend.
     
  4. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    A looooong time ago...

    I tried it and sliced the skin of my thumb in the process:
    with stout recoil (the sort that would demand this 'technique'
    to begin with), the odds are there that your thumb moves closer
    to getting pressed against the cycling slide, and then 'fall'
    partway into the safety notch.

    No biggie unless its your thumbnail that catches the notch.
    Guess it depends on handsize and thumb length.
     
  5. st. matthew

    st. matthew c_w@_u_need_2_c

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    kuya bong, don't mind the safety just shoot it like a glock
    :supergrin:

    i believe jason uses this technique, nababale nya ambi safety nya
     
  6. saki1611

    saki1611 BOG's #1611

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    i'm not that good, but back in basic training the purpose of putting the thumb on top of the safety (1911 type pistol) is to avoid the accident of engaging it while shooting, which is possibly to happen. it's true to use the technique that suites you, but that's for as long as it won't compromise your life. i believe every type of pistol has it's different handling technique when it comes to its use. just my dalawa singkong idea...:supergrin:
     
  7. blueeagle

    blueeagle

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    i have better control and thus shoot better with my thumb on top of the safety catch.:) a cousin in the SAF taught me this bec it allows for greater control and faster recovery time.:)
     
  8. Putok-Glock

    Putok-Glock

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    We are one in saying that the proper grip for a 1911 is w/ the thumb riding the thumb safety. As to putting some pressure on it, it is debatable and subjective.

    What Im looking for is, setting aside personal preference and habit, does the pressure on the t. safety help in countering recoil? If you will try it, you will notice that as your thumb pushes downward, the pinky finger also exerts pressure on the frontstrap towards the shooter, thereby creating a torque downward and opposite in direction to the muzzle rise in recoil. This interactive forces made me consider that this technic has something in it. But in my experiments, I feel some unnecessary tension being exerted by my hand and lower arm making my grip feel awkward, unnatural and complicated. My belief is that in our sport, the least force exerted the better the control and faster to learn and master. But if this type of grip is really usefull then by all means, Im for it.

    As to shooting a 1911 like a glock, St Matt, Im afraid its next to impossible. Contrary to popular belief that a glock shooter is better off when transitioning to a 1911 than the other way around, my experience is far from it. 1911 is the opposite of glock and I started from square one and decided to forgo whatever glock technic I had so that I can assimilate a new and diff technic applicable to the 1911. There was a time when I was almost tempted to return to my gk35 when I realized that i will waste the time, effort and resources I had invested in learning to shoot a glock and start from scratch again to learn to shoot a 1911. Its a long story and maybe deserves another thread.
     
  9. saki1611

    saki1611 BOG's #1611

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    that's good you have someone that's qualified to teach you basic handling of firearms. what batch is he belong to! i'm from batch'91.



    putok-glock, well said. if you think it's effective then, it's worth a try and make it perfect.i know for a fact that your transition from glock to 1911 wont be that hard for you. gripping issue is too basic, the moves and accuracy is already natural to you.:thumbsup:

    i myself dont put much pressure on the safety, just enough to control so that it wont go up accidentally. i'm afraid to experience what jason had, no doubt he's really a good shooter but i just don't want to break a thumb safety during fire. first and foremost reason is, ambi-safety is too expensive.:supergrin: i'm a lefty and i use the safety lever on the right side of the pistol, which is held only in between of a thin metal rod which is too fragile to put too much pressure. well, that's me! enjoy your nice para!
     
  10. Allegra

    Allegra

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    Nope , no pressure
    I put my thumb sa safeey so it wouldnt engage as your shooting plus sa high hand grip dun talaga natural na patungan ng thumb
    Pero I dont use anydownward pressure kahit when shooting stronghand
    Just let the gun recoil, kung neutral grip mo ( walang push/pull kung ano ano)babalik yan sa dating pwesto on it's own
     
  11. blueeagle

    blueeagle

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    saki, i think he has been in the service for only three years. kasama sya sa assault team na nakapatay kina kumander robot sa jail. sa training daw nila bawal ear protection kaya up to now he is complaining of ringing sensation in his ears.
     
  12. Allegra

    Allegra

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    Finally , a topic about shooting :)
    I'm curious
    What is different sa glok and 1911?
    My friends shoot both w/ no prob naman please relate
     
  13. Eye Cutter

    Eye Cutter

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    for me, recoil management is how fast i can get the sights to go back to alignment to get off the follow-up shot!

    if you feel your technique of pressure on the thumb safety can bring down the muzzle faster for the next shot, it will work.

    personally, my support hand thumb floats or just barely touches the frame and my right hand thumb is steered clear of the thmb safety so i don't drag on the slide.

    proper load selection will also help with recoil management as well. try using different powders, slow vs. fast powders, and different bullet head weights. 180, 190, 200 grain heads. try using different reload combinations with the same power factor.

    example: power factor is 170-172
    4.0-4.1gr vv n320, 200gr head
    4.5-4.6gr v n320, 180gr head

    the lower the bullet head weight, the smaller the muzzle rise compared to a heavier bullet head weight with a slightly higher muzzle jump.

    faster return to sight alignment, faster follow-up shot. but the recoil impulse will be different as well. the heavier bullet head will seem slow to cycle and slower to return to alignment but feels softer and more manageable than the backward slap recoil impulse of a load using a lighter bullet head. but recovery of sight alignment will be faster.

    OT: fafa allegra, saw darryl kanina sa armscor clubshoot. magaling na yang grasshopper mo!
     
  14. mc_oliver

    mc_oliver

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    Yep, what fafa said.
     
  15. Allegra

    Allegra

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    Havent been training him matagal na mejo wala nanaman sa shooting utak ko :)
    I just sent him drills sa email ewan ko lang kung nagpapractice
    May kasama daw gelpren sa BRPG , ayun nagkalat hehe wala ba kasama sa armscor?
     
  16. foxyyy

    foxyyy

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    You don't use the thumb safety for recoil management. It is there for, well, as a safety device. Just put a light pressure on it so that the safety doesn't ever rise up and lock the slide while you are shooting. Exerting pressure merely raises the tendency for your sight picture to move (dip down) and not come back in the same place as you want it to.

    Let your gun recoil on its own. Then memorize that recoil and fire away! ;)
     
  17. mtho

    mtho

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    makoy post mo dito yung video ni brian enos na pinost mo dati tungkol sa griping
     
  18. st. matthew

    st. matthew c_w@_u_need_2_c

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    sorry, di ko na mahanapan:sad:
     
  19. saki1611

    saki1611 BOG's #1611

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    i can attest to that!;)
     
  20. HEAVY

    HEAVY "Verify!"

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    i've always shot my 1911's with my thumb riding the safety. never really paying attention to it.

    now that i think about it, it guess it helps a little bit only because i feel that im keeping a more secure hold of the firearm. it's not the thumb riding the safety by itself but the whole grip that i make, including said thumb on said safety.

    there. i'm not sure that's an answer but that's what i think. :supergrin: