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Do you wonder how the news broadcasts will sound when the following becomes widely known about a vaccine that is touted as 90% effective:

Participants in Moderna and Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine trials told CNBC in September that they were experiencing high fever, body aches, bad headaches, daylong exhaustion and other symptoms after receiving the shots.

Both companies acknowledged that their vaccines could induce side effects that are similar to symptoms associated with mild Covid-19, such as muscle pain, chills and headache.
LOL!!

You know, with everything going on this year, I just literally laughed out loud.
 

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Where are all the charts? In the spring, people were posting various charts graphing the virus.

Now that we are in the fall "resurgence", I am interested in seeing if the charts of what is happening now are similar to what happened in the spring. If the charts are similar, it would be a little calming - there will be a spike(s), then a drop off and recovery.
 

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Do you wonder how the news broadcasts will sound when the following becomes widely known about a vaccine that is touted as 90% effective:

Participants in Moderna and Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine trials told CNBC in September that they were experiencing high fever, body aches, bad headaches, daylong exhaustion and other symptoms after receiving the shots.

Both companies acknowledged that their vaccines could induce side effects that are similar to symptoms associated with mild Covid-19, such as muscle pain, chills and headache.
Sign me up.

"Widely known"? How much more "widely known", than having been reported by a major news outlet two months ago? I imagine the news reports will sound just like they've been sounding for the past two months.

And Pfizer's vaccine was rated a minimum of 90% effective in a preliminary report, then updated to circa 95% when more data was available, by the way.

How many participants in the trials reported these symptoms? What percentage? How does that compare to all the other medications that are routinely beneficial, but did not receive the scrutiny that the coronavirus vaccines are getting?

I would gladly accept the low risk of the symptoms you list, if it bought me the freedom to attend the Christmas party of one of my vehicle clubs. I expect eggs in my omelet.

Call me when vaccine trial participants start going on ventilators.
 

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Do you wonder how the news broadcasts will sound when the following becomes widely known about a vaccine that is touted as 90% effective:

Participants in Moderna and Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine trials told CNBC in September that they were experiencing high fever, body aches, bad headaches, daylong exhaustion and other symptoms after receiving the shots.

Both companies acknowledged that their vaccines could induce side effects that are similar to symptoms associated with mild Covid-19, such as muscle pain, chills and headache.
 

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Both companies acknowledged that their vaccines could induce side effects that are similar to symptoms associated with mild Covid-19, such as muscle pain, chills and headache.
OK!

Inquiring minds want to know - and comment, as follows:

1. How is it that these two companies, all of a sudden, can come up with a vaccine that is 90 and 95% effective and in all other years, with the regular flu vaccines, the effective rate is 30-60%?
a. option 1 - the two companies have hired creative statisticians;
b. option 2 - the regular flu vaccines have significantly lower effectiveness because the effectiveness is measured over a lengthy season rather than in the short term. And, if you used the same standards and the regular vaccine were measured at the beginning of the annual flu season, you wouldn't have any mutations.
c. option 3 - the higher effective rate is so much b.s. and is needed for government approval. (Example from real life. When certain insurance policy are issued, they are reviewed for appropriateness, with a minimum percentage of premiums going back to the insureds as benefits. Sometimes, as happens in CA., the numbers have to be cooked in getting the DOI approval before selling the policy to the public, so assumptions are inserted by actuaries that favor attaining the numbers needed. And, if you don't believe me, talk to an actuary at a company issuing policies and undergoing review.) Nothing says that the feds didn't set a standard for effectiveness in approving business dealings with these companies.
2. Why are you told that if you get sick after a regular flu shot, it isn't the fault of the shot, but with this epidemic shot, you can have the symptoms of the epidemic, but you aren't experiencing the epidemic after receiving a shot that is 90 or 95% effective?

Hey! If you want the epidemic shot, go ahead. I am not anti-shot, anti-modern medicine, a conspiracy buyer. I am just an old guy who has been trained to be skeptical by a lifetime of politicians, governments and companies lying.
 

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2. Why are you told that if you get sick after a regular flu shot, it isn't the fault of the shot, but with this epidemic shot, you can have the symptoms of the epidemic, but you aren't experiencing the epidemic after receiving a shot that is 90 or 95% effective?
Um... what?

Both vaccines can have side effects similar to symptoms of the disease they are inoculating against. Neither vaccine has given you said disease, however. Nor does either confer 100% protection.

I hope this clears up your confusion. If not, please try to clarify your query in something more closely approximating English.
 

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Heard something interesting yesterday about the trial results (can’t remember if it was for the Moderna vaccine or Pfizer, have to check. When a full dose was given for the first shot followed up by the second shot (also a full dose), efficacy fell to 70%. Only when a half dose was given for the first shot and a full dose for the second did efficacy rise to 90%. Could be that the body needs a low dose initially to prime the system. Or there is a glitch in the data. Stay tuned.


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Where are all the charts? In the spring, people were posting various charts graphing the virus.

Now that we are in the fall "resurgence", I am interested in seeing if the charts of what is happening now are similar to what happened in the spring. If the charts are similar, it would be a little calming - there will be a spike(s), then a drop off and recovery.
Ulster County, NY.
 
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Yet another strange outbreak has arisen. This time it’s Africa.
Chickenpox? Mild Smallpox?
Monkey pox?

A ProMED-mail post
http://www.promedmail.org
ProMED-mail is a program of the
International Society for Infectious Diseases
http://www.isid.org

Date: Mon 23 Nov 2020
Source: Afrik [in French, trans. Corr. SB, edited]
https://www.afrik.com/senegal-maladie-des-pecheurs-a-thiaroye-le-mystere-perce


Senegal, fishermen's disease in Thiaroye: the mystery unraveled?
-----------------------
The mysterious disease which has afflicted hundreds of fishermen from different regions of Senegal seems to have an explanation, which is not toxic, and a long way from being viral. What could be the cause?

The details
A mysterious disease has appeared in recent days among fishermen in Thiaroye-sur-Mer, a Dakar suburb, and has spread to other localities in Senegal, triggering panic in all the fishing villages. While hundreds, even a thousand people suffer from attacks, in particular dermal, linked to the disease, the health authorities reassured, indicating that the source is not viral.

While specialists evoke a toxic origin, asking that research be directed towards fishermen's nets, a Senegalese doctor seems to have unraveled the mystery of this mysterious disease. According to the "white coat" that was published by the online newspaper Seneweb, the fishermen are suffering from chickenpox.

"'Chickenpox is a contagious disease caused by the chickenpox virus [varicella-zoster virus]. You only catch it once in your life; after that you acquire immunity. Its infection is very rapid. This is why in the fishing villages, where there is great promiscuity, it may seem logical that the disease affects so many people in such a short time,' said the white coat.

'The treatment is just symptomatic with antiseptics to wash off and also antihistamines to stop the itching. At times, to avoid bacterial superinfection, antibiotics can be added. This treatment bears fruit 2 or even 3 weeks later,' continues the doctor.

'Chickenpox in children is less severe than in adults. That is to say, the longer we delay having chickenpox, the more likely we are to get a fairly severe chickenpox like what we are currently seeing in these young adult fishermen. We should isolate them, give them symptomatic treatment, and wait for spontaneous recovery,' he concludes."

Note that this mysterious disease spread very quickly among the fishermen of Thiaroye-sur-mer. Of 60 cases, some 200 people were affected in less than 48 hours, pushing the health authorities to deploy big means to try to contain the disease. Serious cases were quickly taken care of.

[Byline: Alioune Diop]

--
Communicated by:
ProMED-FRA
<[email protected]>

[The information in the above report raises several questions about this outbreak. One physician indicated that these are chickenpox cases, but health authorities are quoted as saying that the source is not viral. It is not clear if the chickenpox diagnosis has been laboratory confirmed or was made on clinical grounds based on the lesions the fishermen have. The lesions can be seen in a photograph published in the above source URL. Although the report indicates that there are 60 cases and 200 people were affected, only fishermen are mentioned, and it does not indicate if any individuals other than fishermen had the diseases. The report states that fishermen in different regions of Senegal are affected, but only Thiaroye is mentioned. Over the past 10 years, ProMED-mail has posted just 2 reports of chickenpox in Africa, in Liberia and Uganda, but not from Senegal. However, there is no reason to think that Senegal is free of chickenpox. ProMED-mail would appreciate receiving any additional information that would address the questions raised in the comments. - Mod.TY]

[The rapid spread of the rash is compatible with chickenpox, which is seen in outbreaks in adults in Africa in contrast to Europe and North America. Monkeypox cannot entirely be excluded based on the appearance of the lesions, but such a large outbreak would be unusual (Human Monkeypox: Epidemiologic and Clinical Characteristics, Diagnosis, and Prevention. Petersen E, Kantele A, Koopmans M, Asogun D, Yinka-Ogunleye A, Ihekweazu C, Zumla A. Infect Dis Clin North Am. 2019 Dec; 33(4): 1027-1043). - Mod.EP]

[I am not sure the lesions shown in the photo that accompanies the Afrik news report look like chickenpox (https://www.afrik.com/senegal-maladie-des-pecheurs-a-thiaroye-le-mystere-perce). Unlike the rash in this news report picture, all the various stages of the chickenpox rash, i.e., papules, vesicles, pustules, and scabs, are seen at the same time. Also, unlike the rash in the news report picture, chickenpox vesicles are superficial, i.e., they look like "dew drops."

The Senegalese pocks in the news report picture are all in the same stage of development. Although varying somewhat in size, all resemble each other in appearance. Also, unlike chickenpox, they appear to be deeply embedded in the skin and dome-shaped, as well as umbilicated, more like the smallpox rash (https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/clinicians/clinical-disease.html).

The Senegalese pocks looks more like the pocks shown in Figure 2 in MMWR report of the multistate outbreak of monkeypox in Illinois, Indiana, and Wisconsin in 2003 (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5223a1.htm#fig1). The MMWR text says, "The monkeypox rash includes macules, papules, vesicles, pustules, and crusts that evolve in the same stage over 14-21 days, similar to smallpox (6). A major clinical difference between monkeypox and smallpox is pronounced lymphadenopathy in a majority of patients with monkeypox (6)." (Reference 6: Jezek ZM, Scczeniowski KM, Paluku M, Putombo M, Grab B. Human monkeypox: clinical features of 282 patients. J Infect Dis. 1987; 156:293-8.) Laboratory confirmation of the virologic diagnosis is urgently needed. - Mod.ML
 

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156 deaths in Ohio yesterday, a record. 37 in one tiny county out of 104 cases. Strange, if accurate.
Ohio is a hot mess! My wife teaches, and tested positive last weekend. I’ve been taking D3, Zinc, and tonic water. So far I’ve avoided coming down with anything. It’s by no means scientific, but hopefully works.

I don’t know why DeWine hasn’t shut schools. To me, that is one area that could have an impact and slow it down. I work in schools as well, and they have exploded with issues
 

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Read early on it might have some aspects that help with Covid-19. I have no idea if true or not, but been sleeping in the same bed as my wife who is positive (symptomatic) and I’ve been fine. Perhaps it’s just luck, but I can’t believe the combo doesn’t have something to do with this.
 

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Discussion Starter #21,597
Heard something interesting yesterday about the trial results (can’t remember if it was for the Moderna vaccine or Pfizer, have to check. When a full dose was given for the first shot followed up by the second shot (also a full dose), efficacy fell to 70%. Only when a half dose was given for the first shot and a full dose for the second did efficacy rise to 90%. Could be that the body needs a low dose initially to prime the system. Or there is a glitch in the data. Stay tuned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
It was the AstraZeneca vaccine. The data is highly suspect. The low dose group was much smaller and there was no older folks in it. It's a mess. Not sure it really matters much at this point, the vaccine does appear to work and the UK needs it.
 

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I haven't seen published numbers for Ohio for two days now. I know about half the states didn't report yesterday because of Thanksgiving. Today is not over yet though.
 

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I haven't seen published numbers for Ohio for two days now. I know about half the states didn't report yesterday because of Thanksgiving. Today is not over yet though.
17,000 and change. However, again reporting a significant backlog of tests.

I would guess somewhere around 11-12k
 
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