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Well I haven't seen any live gel blocks lately but gel is a reliable controllable media that makes accurate performance comparisons of ammo possible. You know those relative performance test outcomes that you are always trying to avoid or discredit.
Correct, which is why what the bullet does to the block of gel means little, but you know that.
 
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Nice!

I got mine at Midway online.

I am good with SD ammo in 357 Sig but want more of the FMJ variety. I am getting the feeling that the ammo situation we are in is going to be the norm for the future. There is to much going on politically to allow the ammo market to stabilize any time soon, maybe never. A word to the wise.
 

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The OP made his decision in post #16, and had the key pros and cons outlined in the first page!

Not sure why contributors or mods felt the need to let this run 16 pages.

I have thought that of a number of threads. This 9 fan boy crap is allowed to continue on forever but just bring up race or some non PC subject and see how long it takes for action.
 

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Correct, which is why what the bullet does to the block of gel means little, but you know that.

So I guess tnoutdoors9 and pretty much all the others who do "gel tests" don't need to continue to measure the stretch cavity in gel as they have done for decades!!! Sorry Dorothy you need to run on home and dream up some more excuses for your range pets performance but keep in mind your excuses have to at least give the impression of being logical.
 

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So I guess tnoutdoors9 and pretty much all the others who do "gel tests" don't need to continue to measure the stretch cavity in gel as they have done for decades!!! Sorry Dorothy you need to run on home and dream up some more excuses for your range pets performance but keep in mind your excuses have to at least give the impression of being logical.
Now you got it rail. Maybe they also believe in the energy dump fairy. So you want to believe boobtubers but not the fbi or ammo makers?? You need to be more consistent, either you believe the fbi test or you dont. FBI & ammo manuf say stretch cav means little. We have all done backyard testing. You can take away whatever you want but it is still what the gel or wetpack or water or whatever does to the bullet. After that, everything else is speculation. Those of us that hunt big things know what terminal ballistics means & it isnt stretch cavity. Actually go shoot living stuff. You will learn more in your first deer or hog kill than all your gel porn masturbation, Toto.
 
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I have thought that of a number of threads. This 9 fan boy crap is allowed to continue on forever but just bring up race or some non PC subject and see how long it takes for action.
Are you off your meds again rail?? You are making no sense, kinda like Joe Biden??
 

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Gotta say that from a utilitarian point of view, the 9mm cannot be beaten.

Fred, you win!

Rail, let’s face it. We .357 Sigheads are not practical.
 

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Gotta say that from a utilitarian point of view, the 9mm cannot be beaten.

Fred, you win!

Rail, let’s face it. We .357 Sigheads are not practical.
Not practical is fine. Enjoying your guns/caliber of choice is fine. Being ignorant on how bullets work, ascribing mythical attributes to a caliber, and spreading erroneous bunk as fact and saying everyone else is crazy is not.
 

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Gotta say that from a utilitarian point of view, the 9mm cannot be beaten.

Fred, you win!

Rail, let’s face it. We .357 Sigheads are not practical.
I like the 357sig a lot, i carry a g32 or p239 @ times, but i am just realistic. I know what bullets do to flesh, i know people & animals can shrug off all that magical energy dump & run or fight. So it just comes down to what you can hit with, really fast. More good hits are better than one good hit.
Most don't run the drills, have no idea what their chosen blaster can actually do in their hands. You have to commit to managing recoil to get the same level of accuracy at speed & even then, you’ll shoot the 9mm better still. I carry or have carried all service calibers. I’vecworn out one 44mag over the years, so not recoil shy at all. I just know that reality says my skill & ability is waaaay more critical than which service caliber i use. Plus i like to ccw as light as possible & still have an effective fighting tool. Ag26 or p365 is just that tool, but i am more picky about ammo with the subcompacts.
 

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I don't think there is anything mythical or erroneous about this caliber or it's impressive performance in gel. Here are a couple of good ole boys who appear to have an excellent understanding of gel tests.

 

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I like the 357sig a lot, i carry a g32 or p239 @ times, but i am just realistic. I know what bullets do to flesh, i know people & animals can shrug off all that magical energy dump & run or fight. So it just comes down to what you can hit with, really fast. More good hits are better than one good hit.
Most don't run the drills, have no idea what their chosen blaster can actually do in their hands. You have to commit to managing recoil to get the same level of accuracy at speed & even then, you’ll shoot the 9mm better still. I carry or have carried all service calibers. I’vecworn out one 44mag over the years, so not recoil shy at all. I just know that reality says my skill & ability is waaaay more critical than which service caliber i use. Plus i like to ccw as light as possible & still have an effective fighting tool. Ag26 or p365 is just that tool, but i am more picky about ammo with the subcompacts.
I want to love subcompacts but my hands just won’t allow it. Compacts are pushing it for me.
 

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As noted earlier I'm a huge fan of 357 SIG but feel that I'm moving away from it with regard to buying ammo and allocating range time. It comes down to these points:

1. Penetration results between 9mm and 357 SIG in the "core weights" of 124 and 125 gr just don't show a huge gap between the calibers. Also, in my experience 357 SIG 125 gr JHP's at factory velocities have a flatter OAL post-expansion than their 9mm 124 gr counterparts.
2. I clearly understand and accept that 357 SIG delivers more energy and momentum to the point of impact.
3. Cost and availability of ammo....and that isn't going to improve measurably for the benefit of 357 SIG. LEO contracts in the caliber are receding and as a result we don't get the overruns and spec rejects.
4. The most important element.....with my abilities I am faster and more accurate into upper COM with hot 9mm (including +P+) than I am with any flavor of 357 SIG.....static, multiple targets, on the move, etc.
 

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I want to love subcompacts but my hands just won’t allow it. Compacts are pushing it for me.
A g19/23/32 is about perfect fit for me. Adding a Pierce ext to the g26 is just about the same for me. I shoot my g26 In competition with a 0.300” base pad & that is also a decent fit.
 

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As noted earlier I'm a huge fan of 357 SIG but feel that I'm moving away from it with regard to buying ammo and allocating range time. It comes down to these points:

1. Penetration results between 9mm and 357 SIG in the "core weights" of 124 and 125 gr just don't show a huge gap between the calibers. Also, in my experience 357 SIG 125 gr JHP's at factory velocities have a flatter OAL post-expansion than their 9mm 124 gr counterparts.
2. I clearly understand and accept that 357 SIG delivers more energy and momentum to the point of impact.
3. Cost and availability of ammo....and that isn't going to improve measurably for the benefit of 357 SIG. LEO contracts in the caliber are receding and as a result we don't get the overruns and spec rejects.
4. The most important element.....with my abilities I am faster and more accurate into upper COM with hot 9mm (including +P+) than I am with any flavor of 357 SIG.....static, multiple targets, on the move, etc.
Shhh. Dont he telling truths on caliber corner. Everyone knows multiple fast hits are fantasy??? Only spoken by those that cant hit better than 1sec splits.
 
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I don't think there is anything mythical or erroneous about this caliber or it's impressive performance in gel. Here are a couple of good ole boys who appear to have an excellent understanding of gel tests.

More misunderstanding of gel block testing, sad. The t-shirt did move though, proof of energy dump i suppose.
 
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More misunderstanding of gel block testing, sad. The t-shirt did move though, proof of energy dump i suppose.

Sorry but your old less is more BS just doesn't float any more, but you can keep ignoring the laws of physics, a multitude of gel tests and common sense if you don't mind looking a little lacking.
 

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Sorry but your old less is more BS just doesn't float any more, but you can keep ignoring the laws of physics, a multitude of gel tests and common sense if you don't mind looking a little lacking.
Now back to exploding water!, Gees, study gun fights, shoot animals, stop watching gel porn & boobtube vids. None of your bs is physics, you are off your rail. Hey i like doing back yard testing, but none of it relates to actually what happens in the real world of terminal ballistics.
 

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Shooting water isn't the same as shooting flesh, but it can give insight about things that are happening that might not be as immediately apparent when shooting flesh. A jug of liquid will explode to varying degrees depending on what it's hit with, could be water, could be a gallon of paint, but a 38 Special won't be as dramatic as a 357 Mag. In this case a 9mm won't be as dramatic as a 357 SIG. It's pretty safe to say a 380 wouldn't be as dramatic as a 357 Max but to think that extra power doesn't translate over to flesh is just wrong. A deer shot with 38 Special can certainly die but a 357 Mag will destroy more tissue, noticeably more so, and the same applies to humans.

Some fall trap to the old worn out concept that handguns suck for self defense, they do not and these people think that since handguns suck then all suck equally even if some are more powerful than others. This is wrong. The 357 SIG, .40 and .45 destroy more tissue than the 9mm does, which isn't to say the 9mm doesn't work but that it just doesn't work as well. But think positively 9mm guys, the 9mm does perform better than the 380 ACP and 32 ACP. It's asinine to think that the larger and/or more powerful calibers which clearly hit harder and are more destructive in all mediums, all of a sudden can't extend those attributes to flesh, which has a large water content, btw.
 
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